Fallout 4 [PS4, PS5, XO, XBSX|S, PC, XGP]

[Sigfried1977]

Almost done with the game I guess. Still on the fence about whether it's my personal goty or not. Still leaning more towards Bloodborne at the moment. My biggest gripe with FO4 is the fact that you basically have to sign up with each faction in order to advance the plot. New Vegas was a much more flexible game in that regard (in just about every other regard as well). On one hand I enjoy the interdependency between the different faction plotlines. One the other hand it makes very little sense how everyone seems to be a-okay with the fact that the player character is dancing at so many different weddings.

 

[Deleted member 11852]

If I'm understanding you correctly, the synth is essential to the quest.

On factions I'm working for the Railroad and Brotherhood and given I'm playing a real sneaky bastard neither faction should not be aware that I'm working for anybody else. But you will almost certainly will reach a point where playing two or more factions will come to a head.

This was certainly the case in previous Bethesda games.

 

[DrJay24]

I was doing three factions and the game doesn't seem to care. It forces you to pick one at one point in the story though.

 

[Deleted member 11852]

I was doing three factions and the game doesn't seem to care. It forces you to pick one at one point in the story though.

Right. And there are pros and cons to this.

Take me for example, I'm aiding anybody who is anti-Institute because I'm sick of those bastards. I'm deliberately playing a sneaky person so my work is all very low profile and because I leave no one alive there are no witnesses of what I'm doing.

But some people are playing differently and it would definitely be interesting if, for example, when you turn up to Railroad missions in Brotherhood armour (including their logo) and you've been representing them that somebody says something.

However from a gameplay perspective I don't think I'd want a consequence of joining one faction mean being locked out of other faction quests because this limits accessible content without multiple playthroughs or grinding faction loyalty like in New Vegas.

There's no perfect solution.

 

[Sigfried1977]

I'm all for locking away content due to my own decisions personally. Especially when there's still a massive amount of content to go around regardless. I prefer meaningful decisions to the typical open world all you can eat menu, but that is just me. Skyrim was particularly stupid in that regard. Morrowind did it fairly if I remember correctly, and I particularly enjoyed CD Project Red's ballsy decision to change an entire act based on my decision in The Witcher 2. Games are just way to hesitant when it comes to inconveniencing players now these days.

 

[Deleted member 11852]

I'm all for locking away content due to my own decisions personally. Especially when there's still a massive amount of content to go around regardless.

I don't disagree but for the average gamer this may not be the case. Is it any more realistic for another faction to magically know what you have done, particularly when there are no witnesses? In New Vegas if you did something for the NCR this would harm your faction alignment with Caesar's Legion even when they couldn't possibly be aware of it.

I prefer meaningful decisions to the typical open world all you can eat menu, but that is just me. Skyrim was particularly stupid in that regard.

I don't disagree with this either but haven't played through Fallout 4's key quest lines to experience how decisions pan out but Bethesda typically always make you take a side, theres no on the fence option unless you don't progress the quest lines.

Morrowind did it fairly if I remember correctly, and I particularly enjoyed CD Project Red's ballsy decision to change an entire act based on my decision in The Witcher 2. Games are just way to hesitant when it comes to inconveniencing players now these days.

I played The Witcher 3 and thoroughly enjoyed it from start to finish but for a game sold heavily on how decisions impact the game I was hugely disappointed in the significance of the decisions and their real impact on the world, which was essentially zero once the game was over. No matter which decisions you make the decisions impact NPCs which are generally no longer visible in the world or impact the world in no meaningful way at all. Compare this to Skyrim where you can affect the regional balance (and the presence of NPCs) in a civil war.

I would have liked to have been able to turn the tide of battle for Nilfgaard or the North but you feel like you against a predetermined backdrop.

 

[Sigfried1977]

The Witcher 2 was very different in that regard.

 

[dobwal]

Is it any more realistic for another faction to magically know what you have done, particularly when there are no witnesses?

I personally explain it away with "my awesomeness is so great that all the factions would rather pander and cater to me to get me to join versus taking me on directly when I haven't sworn them as my enemies yet".

But I haven't even made it to the Institute or the Airship even though I almost level 45. I spend my time doing BOS missions primarily for scavenging so that my empire of shacks and vagabonds can extend across the Commonwealth.

My biggest pet peeve is the "We have a something living around the corner and would like you to do something about it before it becomes a big problem" and then see that the location is set all the way across the map. The other is Blake Albernathy's daughter keeps getting kidnapped.

 

[Deleted member 11852]

I personally explain it away with "my awesomeness is so great that all the factions would rather pander and cater to me to get me to join versus taking me on directly when I haven't sworn them as my enemies yet".

People not treating you as enemies until you do likewise is an relatable thing. Even when you join the Brotherhood, who are actual brotherhood, they don't expect you to surrender your life when you join them. In a world where survival and eking out an existence is the primary goal, it's no real surprise that no faction expects your absolute loyalty and attention nor expect you to stop doing things - and again, from a gameplay perspective, this is a good thing. Narrative-wise is also makes sense because each faction wants the skills you've honed doing what you're doing.

If there was a consequence for going "off mission" after joining the Brotherhood that would also not be great for player freedom.

But I haven't even made it to the Institute or the Airship even though I almost level 45. I spend my time doing BOS missions primarily for scavenging so that my empire of shacks and vagabonds can extend across the Commonwealth.

I've not been contacted by the Institute and my next step with the Brotherhood is to fly to the Prydwen. I'm level 38 or 39 and, like you, I'm wrapped up in a cycle of exploring, dispensing justice to wrongdoers, building my settlements and just enjoying myself. I'm not avoiding the main quests but I am really enjoying the core gameplay and I'm not feeling the need to push the main quests along too quickly.

Perhaps a part of me also knows that there won't be another Fallout game for many years so I'm not keen for the experience to end.

 

[Deleted member 11852]

Patch 1.02 (equivalent to PC version 1.2) went live for PS4 and Xbox One this morning with a scant changelog of:

Fixes

• General memory and stability improvements
• Performance improvements inside the Corvega Assembly Plant
• Optimizations to skinned decal rendering
• Fixed issue with player becoming stuck in terminals
• Fixed issue where equipped weapons become locked after completing Reunions
• Fixed issue with "When Freedom Calls" where the quest would not complete
• During "Confidence Man" fixed issue where player's health would continuously regenerate
• Fixed crash related to jumping into water and reloading saved games
• Fixed issue where Launcher would not save God Rays Quality setting properly (PC)

I hope they've fixed the issue with the Pip-boy not being visible when you have stealth armour on. Like your body and weapon, the Pip-boy is mostly translucent you you have to drop stealth to read it properly.

 

[dobwal]

I honestly do the main quests when I am bit tired of scavenging and building up my settlements and just need a change of pace. Fallout 4 to me is more of a settlement builder with side of rpg than the other way around.

If I have any real complaints its actually with settlement building part of the game. I run into more frustration during that portion of the game with some odd design rules and some of the primitivity of the mechanic itself.

But as of right now this is the best game of the gen and my AOTY (addiction of the year).

 

[DieH@rd]

Great critique of Fallout 4 by Noah Caldwell-Gervais

His coverage of previous Fallout games was also masterful.

 

[djskribbles]

The framerate on the PS4 version seems to be much better overall after 1.02, but some parts still drop for no apparent reason - there are random locks to 20fps even when nothing is happening. The majority of the time it's a pretty stable 30fps now though, even in gun fights.

 

[Deleted member 11852]

The framerate on the PS4 version seems to be much better overall after 1.02, but some parts still drop for no apparent reason - there are random locks to 20fps even when nothing is happening. The majority of the time it's a pretty stable 30fps now though, even in gun fights.

Using previous Bethesda games as reference, it's usually something behind the scenes like a bunch of objects which have clipped through the world and are causing the physics engine to go nuts but which aren't visible to the player. A lot of bug fixes will be removing these oddities.

Unfortunately this patch has not fixed the Pip-boy screen becoming translucent when you're wearing chameleonic armour, which is one of my biggest annoyances.

 

[Sigfried1977]

^technically I wouldn't call it a bug, though. Struck me as a deliberate effect. And as long as you aren't looking at the map, you can still read most of the infos on the display. I took it as an incovenient trade-off.

 

[RenegadeRocks]

If I'm understanding you correctly, the synth is essential to the quest.

On factions I'm working for the Railroad and Brotherhood and given I'm playing a real sneaky bastard neither faction should not be aware that I'm working for anybody else. But you will almost certainly will reach a point where playing two or more factions will come to a head.

This was certainly the case in previous Bethesda games.

I am aligned with ALL factions right now, including the Institute and I wanted to break that now,I wanted to backstab this synth and let it be .....the game didn't let me. What ensued was that since Brotherhood is also my friend I just sat there and waited and they kept killing the synth, who wouldn't die as I was his ally, so it was a never ending loop of nothing ! I just went really far and waited for the synth to give up this fight and the brotherhood knights to go away and then made back to th eplace.

It was utterly stupid and game breaking. Two of my alliances were pitted against each other, I made a choice, I HAD TO, what would you do! and the game told me "go to hell, this is a game and you cannot kill anyone " and to top it all Brotherhood refused to see that I am siding with their enemy ! ! ! This isn't what u expect from fallout, would you? this is what Fallout/Skyrim are for, to make those decisions among factions,make your story.

 

[Deleted member 11852]

^technically I wouldn't call it a bug, though. Struck me as a deliberate effect. And as long as you aren't looking at the map, you can still read most of the infos on the display. I took it as an incovenient trade-off.

It's definitely a bug. About a third of the time the Pip-boy screen will render with a heavy translucent effects because of the stealth field(tm) and about two thirds of the time the Pip-boy screens is completely absent so you can see through it as though there was nothing there at all.

Next time I play I'll try to remember to capture the screens. However even when it's working as I think they intended intended, the edges of the Pip-boy screen are clipped off and it's just too little contrast to use it. You can just about struggle with text, like the inventory, but the map is a blurry mess.

 

[Deleted member 11852]

I am aligned with ALL factions right now, including the Institute and I wanted to break that now,I wanted to backstab this synth and let it be .....the game didn't let me. What ensued was that since Brotherhood is also my friend I just sat there and waited and they kept killing the synth, who wouldn't die as I was his ally, so it was a never ending loop of nothing ! I just went really far and waited for the synth to give up this fight and the brotherhood knights to go away and then made back to th eplace.

Yeah, this is the effect of a quest tagging an individual as 'essential' which means they can, at most, be momentarily knocked unconscious but never killed. The reason for this is that the completion of many quests is dependant upon you successfuly interacting with a live NPC in some way, e.g. talking, handing something in, picking something up or being in the right place with them.

Because the world is incredibly dynamic if NPCs were mortal like they are during random encounters then many NPCs would be dead due to random events before you could complete a whole bunch of quest which would be even more unfuriating.

It was utterly stupid and game breaking. Two of my alliances were pitted against each other, I made a choice, I HAD TO, what would you do! and the game told me "go to hell, this is a game and you cannot kill anyone " and to top it all Brotherhood refused to see that I am siding with their enemy ! ! ! This isn't what u expect from fallout, would you? this is what Fallout/Skyrim are for, to make those decisions among factions,make your story.

Actually this is entrely what I would expect from Fallout because I know how the quests are structured, and what quests do to game assets when your begin them. Because you were on a mission for the Institute the game preserves (marks as essential) those items and NPCs required for completion of the quest.

It is disappointing that there is no reliable way of determining player intent in such situations. You may want to kill the synth but, as with many quests with tempoary companions or objectives, the game is protecting them from random death and friendly fire from the player.

You may see this as "game breaking" but I see the game as punishing you for being a backstabbing bastard ;-)

Anyway, that's the issue/problem and why it happens.

 

[Sigfried1977]

I liked how Morrowind handled it. You got a little warning when attempting to ghost npcs pivotal to the plot line, but in the end no-one would stop me from trapping lord Vivec in a grand soul stone

Really opened up the role playing options. While I didn't end up as the great savior of the land, I didn't really care because becoming the ominous collector of souls was a perfectly fine if non-scripted way to enjoy the game all the same.

 

[Deleted member 11852]

I liked how Morrowind handled it. You got a little warning when attempting to ghost npcs pivotal to the plot line, but in the end no-one would stop me from trapping lord Vivec in a grand soul stone

I didn't play Morrowind but there are potential approaches that can make game worlds feel more involved, particularly by reducing macro level objectives and making them meta. Bethesda's radiant AI is pretty cool and many quests are predicated on not killing or protecting an individual but rather a person assuming a particular role, e.g the Head of whatever organisation, but presumably for scripting and voice work it's easier if it's a named and individual NPC.

But rather that having such an NPC then doing the shenanigans to prevent them dying, go big on Radiant and throw in something like Shadow of Mordor's nemesis system so that even if somebody gets killed, they will inevitably be replaced by a subordinate.

I really liked turning the tide of the civil war in Skyrim because there was a tangible effect on who inhabited certain areas of the world but would have been better if the land felt different depending on how the war went? What if by helping the Empire a consequence was them introducing curfew in places closer to the front line so as to make saboteurs jobs harder? That could make for a more interesting mechanic to evade curfew for night adventuring.

And instead of a situation where you can't kill a synth because a script prevents it because its death means you can't complete the quest you started, have more abstract objectives and wider options for quest completion. Perhaps a better reputation system but one you can't game like New Vegas (or Fallout 3) where instead of a flat 100 rep points penalised for killing a faction member make it depending on the number of witnesses to the act so by doing something very public like RR tried would result in the institute near instantly going hostile and the Brotherhood loving him more. The quest would end because you're on an Institute quest and now they're hostile towards you.

It's doable but requires a whole different and more open approach to writing quest scripts. I'm not sure I'd want to do it