EU PS3 = Software PS2 Emulation

[DJ12]

I haven't read it for a few hours so forgive if I'm wrong, but doesn't the original press release/rueters news article state that "some" PS2 hardware has been removed not "all"?

edit: in the first post it says software will take over some of the tasks not all of them.

 

[Carl B]

Is that your gut feeling, or do you have some hard data to support that?

I mean Sony could have a new custom SouthBridge with some special BC logic emulating some of the EE-GS functionality.

No, it's just a gut feeling, but you're right a 'more' custom SB with some of the logic transfered there could be another option; I know however that the EE+GS is not long for this world (as far as PS3 goes), so unless the considerations *are* in something like a new SB, I don't see Sony bothering with too much other junk when they're trying to pare down in the first place.

 

[Corwin_B]

So why don't you EU guys do something about it. Buy a Wii or a xb360.

I did both, does that count ?

Europe remains the international after-thought. No company is actively taking steps to make everyone here feel appreciated.

Two companies out of three actually managed to launch in Europe in a matter of weeks after US/JP, whereas they could have sold every single unit in the US instead and saved themselves the headache of a global launch. None of those two companies put a gimped product on the EU marketplace, removing features a couple of days before launch (so that people can't cancel preorders). None of those two companies has execs basically saying "EU consumers don't mind being served last, they gobble our stuff anyway.". So I'd be wary of putting everyone in the same bag...

 

[DuckThor Evil]

http://www.megaswap.fi/index.php?sivu=katalogi&kategoria=75&lukumaara=1000&selita=1890 Premiun+gears 369e

http://www.gigantti.fi/is-bin/INTER...7b&CatalogCategoryID=.qvD4QFHKrIAAAEOnVg03xil
Premium+gears 349e

I don't want to talk off topic, but I felt the need to post these just to prove I wasn't making stuff up :smile: The latter place is a bit weird as I was able to find two different prices for the bundle, but they should definately honour that price, the first one is a sure thing, it's a gamestore I often visit.

As for the topic. Has it been confirmed that the software version will definately allow some enhancements to game titles, or is that still up in the air?

 

[Carl B]

No, not confirmed at this point.

 

[Fafalada]

Sony seriously should have released a list to give us better understanding what this "limited" means.

The wording of the PR is pretty awful. They also state "broad" for PS1 compatibility which has not been altered at all.

I wonder if there is more behind this decision

I sincerely doubt that. The PS2 components also included 32MB of RDRam - which no matter how you count, is a significant chunk of change.

 

[Crayon]

The day I picked up my PS3 they disclaimed to me that many PS2 games would not run. Luckily that was not true.

If it's true this time, that's a huge dissapointment. They've been pretty good about updating firmware, but hammering out a PS2 software enulator is a tall order and I won't be holding my breath for it.

 

[zed]

wrong thread

 

[GregLee]

The better the BC, the fewer PS3 games will be sold, since some people will play PS2 games instead of buying more PS3 games to play. It's in Sony's interest to promise BC as an incentive to buy PS3s but then to fail to deliver it, as an incentive to buy PS3 games.

 

[Rolf N]

One thing is though, is the EE/GS really that expensive to produce these days?

Depends on your definition of "that". 30$ was last year's rough figure, and it goes without saying that the cost would go down if production gets ported to a 65nm fab.

It's kinda funny. The German division of opposing PR muppets that are deployed to a certain forums I visit are falling over themselves to paint that cost at a square 100€, and "demand" a matching price-cut. Outrageous exaggeration is the reason for their constant failure to achieve anything.

 

[deathkiller]

If at least one game that I have looks better in the PS3 than in the PS2 I will be happy with the change.

Half of my PS2 games are imports that in any case wouldn't work in the PS3 so my modded PS2 would still be hooked to my TV in any case.

It's a good move for Sony, it will give them bad PR but they will be able to reduce the price sooner and that is far more important than perfect BC day one for the PS3s future.

 

[Nesh]

So why don't you EU guys do something about it. Buy a Wii or a xb360. Hold out on a ps3 purchase till a significant price drop. ...Something.

As I stated earlier in this thread, N and MS have treated you EU guys pretty fairly* from what I've seen. By ignoring* their efforts and continuing your ps purchasing behavior hot on the heels of a smack in the face* is to simply state* "thank you sir, may I have another".

*relatively speaking

I think in EU, Wii and 360 are also more expensive compared to the US and Japan

There is nothing we can do really. Waiting for a price drop isnt always a good idea.
Sometimes we are eager to get our hands on certain games as soon as possible and secondly waiting for a price drop could be more "costy" for us who may want to get our hands on it in the future. What do I mean by this? the more we wait, the less sales PS3 gets. And the less sales PS3 gets the less the support in the future. And the less the support, the less we will get from the console when we finally buy it

 

[Platon]

Well, it's not just marketing. Content, retail (others are catching up here), and marketing. And I'm not presenting a comprehensive explanation of Sony's success. I'm just pushed to mention the things Sony does RIGHT in Europe relative to the competition when people characterise Europe as some kind of abused spouse that irrationally sticks to their product. Yes, Sony has lagged MS and Nintendo in some respects with the handling of the PS3 launch in terms of equal treatment with the rest of the world, but in perhaps less externally obvious ways they've been a lot more progressive, and in ways that probably matter more over the lifetime of a particular product.

Anyway, this is OT, so I shall say no more.

I agree, although many would get the impression that Sony just totaly abuses the european customers they also offer of good things. One good example is singstar, where they would also make local variations for each country, even the small ones, having local hits and stuff like that. Those kind of things take you very far, in making you popular and of course being an FIFA sponsor and son on does not hurt either, so for sure Sony does a lot of good moves as well.

I still think that Europe is Sony land where the xbox brand has a chance in UK and scandinavia I think, but the further south you go the more prevalent becomes the Sony stronghold in Europe. We will have to wait and see how it goes with the PS3 and its price though, but I don't think they will suffer too much but for now wait and see...

 

[MasaC]

Are you people aware of that there's been 1375 PS2 titles released in North America while at the same time 2451 PS2 titles has been released in Europe?

source: http://www.scei.co.jp/corporate/data/bizdatatitle_e.html

That means the software BC rate with the European PS3 has to be lower than 57% to be worse off than the US PS3 if we assume the HW BC rate is 100%.

 

[Corwin_B]

Are you people aware of that there's been 1375 PS2 titles released in North America while at the same time 2451 PS2 titles has been released in Europe?

source: http://www.scei.co.jp/corporate/data/bizdatatitle_e.html

That means the software BC rate with the European PS3 has to be lower than 57% to be worse off than the US PS3 if we assume the HW BC rate is 100%.

Things don't work that way. When you do a SW emulator, generally the harder titles to emulate properly are the one pushing the underlying chipset the most. Which are generally the best games. If two obscure EU-only titles work perfectly, while MGS3 doesn't work (whereas it does on the US and JP PS3s), then I doubt EU customers are better off, for example.

Simple titles being the easier to emulate is the reason why the 360BC list is full of unmitigated disasters of games...

 

[nAo]

to be honest I would not compute bc rate that way, it should be a weighted average, not all games are created equal

 

[DJ12]

Things don't work that way. When you do a SW emulator, generally the harder titles to emulate properly are the one pushing the underlying chipset the most. Which are generally the best games. If two obscure EU-only titles work perfectly, while MGS3 doesn't work (whereas it does on the US and JP PS3s), then I doubt EU customers are better off, for example.

Simple titles being the easier to emulate is the reason why the 360BC list is full of unmitigated disasters of games...

Having said that, the big games are the ones likely to have stuck to Sony's standards (which I forget the acronym for) which would make it easier to emulate.

The biggest problem with emulation in the main is lack of documentation meaning coders have to guess how something gets done. Sony won't have this problem so I think they will have made a fairly reasonable emulator and are just lowering expectations so people don't complain when some obscure game or other doesn't work.

It's almost a certainty in my opinion that all the big games will work without a hitch.

 

[assen]

There is nothing we can do really. Waiting for a price drop isnt always a good idea.
Sometimes we are eager to get our hands on certain games as soon as possible and secondly waiting for a price drop could be more "costy" for us who may want to get our hands on it in the future. What do I mean by this? the more we wait, the less sales PS3 gets. And the less sales PS3 gets the less the support in the future. And the less the support, the less we will get from the console when we finally buy it

So you are willing to sacrifice your own interest (e.g. paying 100-200 USD or EUR for a console) for the good of Sony, so you can hope that they will reciprocate in the future when you "finally buy it"? The problem with that line of thinking is your assumption that you will eventually buy a PS3, sooner or later, no matter what. You can just give up on them totally and boycott them - in this way you can hope for all the good games to show up on the other, cheaper platforms. Both lines of reasoning are equally valid (unless you buy the "you can't make a good game in less than 9 GB of data, now or in 2010" BS), and somewhat economically sound - yet only one of them is bon ton on forums such as this. Why?

 

[deathkiller]

So you are willing to sacrifice your own interest (e.g. paying 100-200 USD or EUR for a console) for the good of Sony, so you can hope that they will reciprocate in the future when you "finally buy it"? The problem with that line of thinking is your assumption that you will eventually buy a PS3, sooner or later, no matter what. You can just give up on them totally and boycott them - in this way you can hope for all the good games to show up on the other, cheaper platforms. Both lines of reasoning are equally valid (unless you buy the "you can't make a good game in less than 9 GB of data, now or in 2010" BS), and somewhat economically sound - yet only one of them is bon ton on forums such as this. Why?

Because the concept of "good games" varies between persons and 100-200€ of difference it's nothing for a console that you will play for 6+ years.

 

[assen]

Because the concept of "good games" varies between persons and 100-200€ of difference it's nothing for a console that you will play for 6+ years.

First, are you stating that there some definitions of "good games" that can't under any circumstances (read: lousy Sony marketshare) appear on other consoles? Like those mythical JRPGs that can't ever appear on some mythical shooter-only console I keep hearing about?

Second, 100-200 EUR is something you must pay NOW, giving up on other goods costing 200 EUR today, not over the course of 6+ years - charge your credit card 200 EUR now and try to pay them over 5-6 years and see what interest makes out of them. An honestly, I don't believe I will play this console for 6+ years - do you believe you'll still be playing PS3 games on this exact console you buy today in 2012? I have a PS2 bought in 2003, which is clearly on its last legs - its optical pickup underwent two visits to the service center, and I don't see myself paying about 80 EUR for a complete replacement of the pickup or 150 EUR for a new PS2 with basically only God of War 2 and several cute-but-obscure games like Odin Sphere coming out for it.