EU PS3 = Software PS2 Emulation

[Nesh]

So you are willing to sacrifice your own interest (e.g. paying 100-200 USD or EUR for a console) for the good of Sony, so you can hope that they will reciprocate in the future when you "finally buy it"? The problem with that line of thinking is your assumption that you will eventually buy a PS3, sooner or later, no matter what. You can just give up on them totally and boycott them - in this way you can hope for all the good games to show up on the other, cheaper platforms. Both lines of reasoning are equally valid (unless you buy the "you can't make a good game in less than 9 GB of data, now or in 2010" BS), and somewhat economically sound - yet only one of them is bon ton on forums such as this. Why?

For the good of Sony? Its for my OWN good, The console is getting some good games and has potential and I reckognise the potential and the ganes. If it didnt have potential and ganes I wouldnt have been planning to buy it so NO I am NOT getting it no matter what. I am planning to get al three consoles because they ALL deserve it.

And NO boycotting them wont make things better. Nothing guarantees that all these games will also appear on the other consoles atleast in THIS generation (Especially 1st party games) and unlike MS, if Sony is taken out once they might be taken out of the game forever and needlessly reducing competition.
If all three consoles were being produced by "equally" powerful and competitive companies things might have been different for me and I might have sticked with the other two only but that would have been unlikely even then.

If MS becomes what Sony was chances will be scarce for someone else to enter the market since risk is extremely high for a newcomer. MS was the only one who could do it after what Sony achieved. And I like competition. Do you?
if I support boycotting the PS3 its like saying "We should have boycoted XBOX back in the days! They only want our money for a PC in a box" which ofcourse is a stupid thing to say, you wouldnt have liked that and it doesnt differ from what is being said about the PS3 now either

And PS3 isnt a piece of crap to deserve such a treatment,

Also you bring things into the subject that was never implied probably in an effort to support a boycott against Sony which atleast in my ears sounds immature.I ve been hearing such things by fanboys since the PS1 days and I find this intolerable to be said for ANY console.

I didnt imply or mentioned anything about disks and no one implied good games cant be put in 9GB disk and neither has Sony or anyone claimed such a think as far as I know unless I lost something (if I lost it that means it is a drop in the ocean). Sony claimed (quite naturally like every company) that bigger storage will bring better experiences (or games if you want to interpete it differently). There is nothing wrong with that. Such "bs" statements as the one you mentioned doesnt even exist for me to even consider the possibility of believing it. AAA games will continue to appear in DVD disks, but at the same time I think about the possibilities of a bigger storage disk and it has NOTHING to do with what Sony or anyone else claimed. But thats irrelevant anyways and I was never going to start talking about disk space

 

[Nesh]

First, are you stating that there some definitions of "good games" that can't under any circumstances (read: lousy Sony marketshare) appear on other consoles? Like those mythical JRPGs that can't ever appear on some mythical shooter-only console I keep hearing about?

Second, 100-200 EUR is something you must pay NOW, giving up on other goods costing 200 EUR today, not over the course of 6+ years - charge your credit card 200 EUR now and try to pay them over 5-6 years and see what interest makes out of them. An honestly, I don't believe I will play this console for 6+ years - do you believe you'll still be playing PS3 games on this exact console you buy today in 2012? I have a PS2 bought in 2003, which is clearly on its last legs - its optical pickup underwent two visits to the service center, and I don't see myself paying about 80 EUR for a complete replacement of the pickup or 150 EUR for a new PS2 with basically only God of War 2 and several cute-but-obscure games like Odin Sphere coming out for it.

I bought my PS2 in xmass 2001 at a price worth of $420. I still play it and there are games on it I still want to play. GoW2, Okami and FF12 are among these and currently I am trying to finish KH2 and GT4. Now its being sold at a much cheaper price and it has more games. It was worth every penny despite the "NOW" of $420 back in the day when it didnt have as good or as many games. Also the PS2 continues to sell a lot and its been around 7 years since it was released. How can this be explained?

edit":360 will be much cheaper too with lots more games in 2010. It doesnt mean the current price isnt worth it either. The same counts for all consoles old gen, this and the next gen. The now you pay is a long term investment. Thes shorter the horizon of that investment and the utility you can get from it the cheaper it gets (See launch consoles that lack games have problems and cost more compared to the time they mature are more perfect being sold cheaper and with more games).

 

[nAo]

There's no need to define what a good game or a bad game is, if you want to please the maximum number of customers with the minimum number of working titles you just provide bc for the titles that have sold more copies than any other title.

 

[assen]

If MS becomes what Sony was chances will be scarce for someone else to enter the market since risk is extremely high for a newcomer.

Not MS, it's Nintendo who seem to be on their way to be what Sony was, and much more (thanks to the portable monopoly).

Also you bring things into the subject that was never implied probably in an effort to support a boycott against Sony which atleast in my ears sounds immature.

I was just pointing out that the logic "pay them what they request now, so they can live" sounds flawed to me - immature, if you will.

I didnt imply or mentioned anything about disks and no one implied good games cant be put in 9GB disk and neither has Sony or anyone claimed such a think as far as I know unless I lost something (if I lost it that means it is a drop in the ocean).

Well, it's a common theme, the supposed advantage of PS3 that will allow it to dominate in the long term. You keep referring to it as "potential". What is the PS3's potential for you? The Blu-ray? Cell? Metal Gear Solid and Final Fantasy? Gran Turismo? Of these, Blu-ray is the most clear-cut one, since it's vastly larger than DVD9 - more so than Cell > Xenon - and the games can jump ship or be cloned (in the gase of GT).

 

[Laa-Yosh]

Okay, how about this?

http://img230.imageshack.us/my.php?image=highres3ek2.jpg

Rumoured to be FFXII running with software emulation in 1280 res...

 

[nAo]

PS2 emulator running on PC maybe?

 

[Geo]

Given that their are still titles coming out on PS2, is there any evidence that there was a point in time (and when it was) where Sony communicated to devs what they needed to do with their upcoming PS2 titles to make them port flawlessly to their new PS3 sw emu? I suppose if we could see the list, that might become relatively clear, but its not up yet.

 

[deathkiller]

do you believe you'll still be playing PS3 games on this exact console you buy today in 2012? I have a PS2 bought in 2003, which is clearly on its last legs - its optical pickup underwent two visits to the service center, and I don't see myself paying about 80 EUR for a complete replacement of the pickup or 150 EUR for a new PS2 with basically only God of War 2 and several cute-but-obscure games like Odin Sphere coming out for it.

My European launch PS2 works very well to this day and it have offered me thousands of hours of fun mostly thanks its exclusive games. I also have a launch Wii, I will soon have a Xbox 360 and will buy a PS3 on its European launch but my favorite system ever is the PS2.

I think that every big console is worth its price at launch.

 

[assen]

Okay, how about this?

http://img230.imageshack.us/my.php?image=highres3ek2.jpg

Rumoured to be FFXII running with software emulation in 1280 res...

Nope, the one who released it (pirotic, on the eurogamer forums) later said it's hardware BC + software upscale, from a devkit.

See the gigantic jaggies on the silhouette of Vaan (the blond boy) - this is no 1280 rendering.

 

[Nesh]

Not MS, it's Nintendo who seem to be on their way to be what Sony was, and much more (thanks to the portable monopoly).

Nintendo is different. They dont offer what I seek in 360 and PS3. They offer something COMPLETELY differemt. They wont be Sony. They will dominate in a different and new approach. They arent competing directly and they dont replace what MS and Sony are offering. And I care about the competition in these offerings more than Nintendo's. Nintendo is like a side-player

I was just pointing out that the logic "pay them what they request now, so they can live" sounds flawed to me - immature, if you will.

Read again though. Its also a matter of what I want from gaming. Sony isnt 3DO, Attari, or Phantom and neither is their console THAT flawed to kill it and sacrifice what I want. Its not like the PS3 could have been sold cheap anyways.
The motive your bringing sounds like "dont pay them so they can die" too which also sounds immature

Well, it's a common theme, the supposed advantage of PS3 that will allow it to dominate in the long term. You keep referring to it as "potential". What is the PS3's potential for you? The Blu-ray? Cell? Metal Gear Solid and Final Fantasy? Gran Turismo? Of these, Blu-ray is the most clear-cut one, since it's vastly larger than DVD9 - more so than Cell > Xenon - and the games can jump ship or be cloned (in the gase of GT).

The potential for me is direct Japanese support in THIS gen (PS3 wont be dying anytime soon even if it does gets boycoted initially which is what I said earlier. Nothing guarantees you ll get that support this gen but more lik ethe next), BR is potential, Cell is potential (I am really intersted on its capabilities), the SIXAXIS as well as the games you mentioned plus more. Games can be cloned but the clones arent always as good. You see its up to the developers. Forza is the closest effort and Forza1 didnt prove itself for me as good.

Is that bad if PS3 proves itself as good as the 360? It can do it. If we boycot it it wont. Its like not wanting to give it the chance?

 

[assen]

Nintendo is different. They dont offer what I seek in 360 and PS3. They offer something COMPLETELY differemt. They wont be Sony. They will dominate in a different and new approach.

Oh cmon. (What is the proper English way of saying "oh bullshit" without offending the speaker? ) Saying Nintendo is different and competition from them doesn't count is like saying iPods are no competition for portable CD players, as they are something different. The market is the same, with the same limited resources - consumer attention, consumer money, developer attention - and there is only one way of dominating. If you walk into a friend's home and are more surprised when you don't see a Wii than if you DO, that's domination. If a developer can't pitch a game to a publisher without being asked "what about a Wii version?", that's domination. If the default thing that a soap opera character is holding when he is shown to play games is a Wiimote instead of the current Dualshock, that's domination.

Nintendo are well on their way to this situation with Wii, and I can see very little things that can stop them. Maybe 360 given away with an IPTV deal or sold at $150 with Halo3 or GTA IV AND a memory card (or built-in flash, just like Wii).

Is that bad if PS3 proves itself as good as the 360? It can do it. If we boycot it it wont. Its like not wanting to give it the chance?

I'm willing to give them a chance, if that doesn't cost me 600 EUR ;-)

 

[-tkf-]

An honestly, I don't believe I will play this console for 6+ years - do you believe you'll still be playing PS3 games on this exact console you buy today in 2012? I have a PS2 bought in 2003, which is clearly on its last legs - its optical pickup underwent two visits to the service center, and I don't see myself paying about 80 EUR for a complete replacement of the pickup or 150 EUR for a new PS2 with basically only God of War 2 and several cute-but-obscure games like Odin Sphere coming out for it.

Whats your point? that the owners of the 360 should expect to buy 3 consoles durings it´s "time on market" ?

 

[assen]

Whats your point? that the owners of the 360 should expect to buy 3 consoles durings it´s "time on market" ?

My point is that between shortening console cycles and sloppy manufacturing you shouldn't count on your console lasting 6 years.

 

[avaya]

and the games can jump ship or be cloned (in the gase of GT).

I find this notion quite funny.

Why do I want a clone? Forza is no Gran Turismo. Gran Turismo is no Forza.

 

[assen]

I find this notion quite funny.

Why do I want a clone? Forza is no Gran Turismo. Gran Turismo is no Forza.

Yeah, people with F1 quotes in the signatures will probably know the difference But what percentage of the people who bought the zillion copies of the GT series in Europe will tell the next Forza from the next GT if shown HUD-less videos, or even trying them out in a blind test?

 

[Shifty Geezer]

For the argument 'Boycott PS3 and the good games will move to other platforms', do you seriously think Sony's first party titles are going to appear on XB360? As they're the only exclusive good games we're talking about. If it's not the first-party titles you care for on PS3, the other titles are all appearing cross-platform anyway!

Boycotting PS3 won't get XB360 Eye of Judgement, GT5, Lemmings, GOW, Rub-a-dub or whatnot. It won't get XB360 motion controls. It won't give XB360 a BRD drive or let you run Linux. And it'll reduce competition on MS so they won't need to work so hard to improve things.

Sensible consumer behaviour is to find the product you want, and wait for it to drop to the price you're willing to pay for it, while competing factions each try to make their product the one you want.

 

[Nesh]

Oh cmon. (What is the proper English way of saying "oh bullshit" without offending the speaker? ) Saying Nintendo is different and competition from them doesn't count is like saying iPods are no competition for portable CD players, as they are something different. The market is the same, with the same limited resources - consumer attention, consumer money, developer attention - and there is only one way of dominating. If you walk into a friend's home and are more surprised when you don't see a Wii than if you DO, that's domination. If a developer can't pitch a game to a publisher without being asked "what about a Wii version?", that's domination. If the default thing that a soap opera character is holding when he is shown to play games is a Wiimote instead of the current Dualshock, that's domination.

Nintendo are well on their way to this situation with Wii, and I can see very little things that can stop them. Maybe 360 given away with an IPTV deal or sold at $150 with Halo3 or GTA IV AND a memory card (or built-in flash, just like Wii).

Actually comparing Nintendo to 360 or PS3 is like comparing an iPod to a home cinema DVD player. Both can play music, both can play movies. But you get different utilities and experience and are being sold at completely different prices.

Comparing iPod to a CD player its like comparing 2 consoles that ofer the exact same things, only the first offers it a lot better and more efficiently. besides iPod is an evolution and improvement over what what walkmans and CD players offered.

Wii though is not that. Wii is just different. It's not an improvement over 360 or PS3. It sells because its different and cheap. Its the iPod of gaming

I'm willing to give them a chance, if that doesn't cost me 600 EUR ;-)

Which means you arent since you are telling people to boycot it and if that happens, well....financially Sony wont be doing well, the product wont be doing well, and decreasing the price would mean....increased losses

 

[assen]

Which means you arent since you are telling people to boycot it and if that happens, well....financially Sony wont be doing well, the product wont be doing well, and decreasing the price would mean....increased losses

I am NOT telling people to boycott! I am just pointing out that supporting your favorite vendor despite the high price with the hope of "good things to come" is irrational economic behavior...

 

[assen]

Sensible consumer behaviour is to find the product you want, and wait for it to drop to the price you're willing to pay for it, while competing factions each try to make their product the one you want.

Yes, that's exactly my point, and that's why I even replied to the OP who claimed you should pay the early adopter premium just to support "your side".

Edit: ummm sorry... will learn to remember about multiquoting one of these days...

 

[avaya]

Yeah, people with F1 quotes in the signatures will probably know the difference But what percentage of the people who bought the zillion copies of the GT series in Europe will tell the next Forza from the next GT if shown HUD-less videos, or even trying them out in a blind test?

True, most people wouldn’t be able to tell the difference.

However…

The people who want Gran Turismo do not want a clone. They want Gran Turismo. The same is true for Forza. Those who want Forza do not want Gran Turismo.

The box will say Gran Turismo on it. People know what Gran Turismo is. Even women who don’t play games( In Europe, this is from personal experience so take it with a huge grain of salt). It’s the racing genre’s equivalent of Pokemon in terms of recognition. It is Sony's greatest 1st party asset by far and biggest in the genre, by far.

In any case there is no simple substitute for big franchise games. This is why Forza is being pushed to release as fast as possible, otherwise if it arrives alongside GT it stands little chance to capture the limelight, especially in Europe – GT’s biggest region.

I do understand the rationale of your initial point though, however choosing one of the biggest franchises in videogames as an example to illustrate it sort of shattered the underlying reasoning because GT has name recognition and a fan base.