Epic's behaviour regards Blezinski's Boss Key studios (Boss Key now closed)

[JPT]

. There is also another side of the coin here which is a bit forgotten here, the one related to companies and their policies. If Epic don't have enough talented scouts they don't deserve creative, highly skilled employees. I mean, it was other people's staff who searched for those skilled people, so Epic had half of the work done and then they get that talent, just like they did with Fortnite. I am despising Epic.

I totally disagree, there is a limited pool of people that can do certain jobs. There is no reason that Epic or any company should refrain from hiring people already working in another company. That is what got Google / Apple in trouble and if I want to go to work in Epic, should they turn me down since I work at Boss Key? If Boss Key can block you from signing on with a competitor, should you be un-fireable also?
Workers are not slaves that belongs to a company for life and they should be able to advance in any which way they see fit.

 

[Deleted member 11852]

I totally disagree, there is a limited pool of people that can do certain jobs. There is no reason that Epic or any company should refrain from hiring people already working in another company.

Yup. Companies are owned by people who have no innate rights or claims over the skills of their employees. If a competitor, who may also be a partner in some respects, wants to create something then they are obviously going to approach people they know have those skills. If you don't want people to leave your company then you pay and treat them well and most of the time this works.

In my experience, some people will be drawn to higher pay due to financial necessity, others will favour more flexible working conditions and creative/organisation freedom even at lower pay but if you're losing a lot of people then there is a bigger problem at play.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

I've always understood non-compete clauses are usual and legally enforceable. They exist to prevent someone leaving a company and going to a rival with all the insider knowledge they've acquired. This website explains them and suggests they are legally enforceable in the UK: https://www.out-law.com/page-7086.

 

[JPT]

The rules in Norway you can read up on here :

https://www.taylorvinters.com/news/...ion-non-solicitation-non-recruitment-clauses/

In accordance with the Norwegian Working Environment Act (the “WEA”) §§ 14 A-1 and 14 A-2, such clauses will now only be valid if the following conditions are met:

• The clause is agreed in writing;
• The employer has a particular need for protection against competition at the time the clause is enforced;
• The employer gives a written account of the necessity of enforcing the clause upon the employee’s request, or automatically when the employee resigns / is dismissed;
• The restriction does not last longer than 12 months after termination of the employment; and
• The employee is compensated equal to 100% of the remuneration the employee received in the last year of the employment (including base salary, overtime payment, bonus, etc.), subject to a cap based on the National Insurance scheme basic amount.

Further, the non-competition clause cannot be invoked if the employee is dismissed due to circumstances relating to the employer, nor can the clause be invoked if the employee has terminated the employment due to the employer’s breach of the employment agreement.

 

[Deleted member 11852]

I've always understood non-compete clauses are usual and legally enforceable. They exist to prevent someone leaving a company and going to a rival with all the insider knowledge they've acquired. This website explains them and suggests they are legally enforceable in the UK: https://www.out-law.com/page-7086.

Taking information or proprietary knowledge is different. This is what ZeniMax, Bethesda's parent company, charged John Carmack with in regards to VR technology. Cases like this are both difficult to prove and defend and the laws are varied. In the UK, if you come up with a amazing patentable design your employer owns it (1977 Patent Act) and not the individual and this is not uncommon around the would. Employment contract clauses related to this is usually there to highlight this, not required to legally enforce it.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

Not disputing that, but that website says post-employment clauses are valid and goes a little into what happens when they're broken. I know one example of a guy who left a medical software company and wasn't allowed to create his own company in the same field for one year after leaving. Legal advice was that it was a legally enforceable clause.

 

[Deleted member 11852]

Legal advice was that it was a legally enforceable clause.

And speaking from a lot of experience, if you ask three lawyers you'll get three different sets of advice. Legal advice is only as good as the guesswork of the lawyer about any given cases's outcome. That'll depend on precedents if there are any and for civil cases like, you won't have a jury so it'll depend entirely on who the judge is.

 

[CSI PC]

Not disputing that, but that website says post-employment clauses are valid and goes a little into what happens when they're broken. I know one example of a guy who left a medical software company and wasn't allowed to create his own company in the same field for one year after leaving. Legal advice was that it was a legally enforceable clause.

It is a tricky thing and how a company feels they need to protect themselves.
Going back 10 years ago I know one tech bellwether lured half of the R&D engineers (single project team) from a lucrative IP product/service being sold by another tech bellwether, they were working in collaboration before it all went to shit lol and never went to court to block them; although it is fair to say the company that lost those engineers was very careful to monitor if any of their IP found its way in the competing product; the engineers would be under clauses stopping them using directly such IP knowledge for a competitor although it does not stop workarounds outside of it.
This was in the US-UK mix.
Although the same bellwether did enforce blocking a senior sales VP going to a competitor for 1 year to protect the sales channel structure/core clients.

I think most can appreciate why I am having to be vague as it did not make it into the press.

 

[Michellstar]

Upssss

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/996092708971274245

 

[Shifty Geezer]

Very good chance employees saw the writing on the wall and looked for alternative employment before Boss Key went under.

 

[Deleted member 13524]

Very good chance employees saw the writing on the wall and looked for alternative employment before Boss Key went under.

CliffyB's twitter rant may have left many of their employees very uncomfortable with their situation.

First of of all, it's a no-brainer that Epic is hiring people who have experience with Unreal Engine 4 and a battle royale game to work on Fortnite which has surpassed PUBG in playerbase and is still growing.

It's a much safer bet to work for Epic than for Boss Key which was a dev studio on the verge of collapse after the failure of Lawbreakers and was grasping at straws with a (yet another) me-too game that was going to launch on a market close to saturation.
Their boss going on twitter saying the game they were working on "may never see the light of day" probably didn't help with all the insecurities the team already had.

That twitter rant showed at least 3 major mistakes:

1 - Picking a fight with a major and much larger business partner on social media;
2 - Treating his former employees as commodities that he owned.
3 - Coming on social media to complain that the game may never be released.


In the end, Cliff Bleszinski strikes me as perhaps being too emotional to assume the role of a CEO.

 

[Billy Idol]

Upssss

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/996092708971274245

Your are welcome Cliff. I bought Lawbreakers and it was actually a decent game. Its "only" problem was that no one played it...which substantially decreased the quality for all the people that wanted to play it and tried to find an online match...

I actually think that this tweet was more driven by helpless frustration than actual complaint. I can feel for this guys and believe him, that they really worked hard and tried their best to make the company fly...

 

[Shifty Geezer]

Would bots help in that regard? For any multiplayer game trying to get started, a dearth of people means it just can't get anywhere. Bots would solve that. Which makes me think...(new thread incoming)

 

[AlNom]

I almost thought you were talking about twitter bots.

 

[Deleted member 13524]

I actually think that this tweet was more driven by helpless frustration than actual complaint.

FWIW, I was commenting on the tweets mentioned in this thread's first post.
The tweet about the studio closure was pretty polite and politically correct IMO.

 

[Cyan]

CliffyB's twitter rant may have left many of their employees very uncomfortable with their situation.

First of of all, it's a no-brainer that Epic is hiring people who have experience with Unreal Engine 4 and a battle royale game to work on Fortnite which has surpassed PUBG in playerbase and is still growing.

It's a much safer bet to work for Epic than for Boss Key which was a dev studio on the verge of collapse after the failure of Lawbreakers and was grasping at straws with a (yet another) me-too game that was going to launch on a market close to saturation.
Their boss going on twitter saying the game they were working on "may never see the light of day" probably didn't help with all the insecurities the team already had.

That twitter rant showed at least 3 major mistakes:

1 - Picking a fight with a major and much larger business partner on social media;
2 - Treating his former employees as commodities that he owned.
3 - Coming on social media to complain that the game may never be released.


In the end, Cliff Bleszinski strikes me as perhaps being too emotional to assume the role of a CEO.

different traits, different people. He hasn't achieved the rockstar status yet, like say Carmack, Bethesda, Valve, Blizzard, Nintendo, did... I wouldn't say he isn't focused.

This is a tumultuous time for Cliffy B. especially when you consider the games he wanted to build hadn't much to make them stand from the crowd. That's perfectly fine if you are in a big, settled company, but for an indie like development approach...

Cliff Bleszinski did not help himself with his intention to stated about to make just another BILLION dollar franchise, he was just as doomed to fail as those games that declare themselves the next big thing, Blizzard like success, the next big e-sport before they've even released...

 

[Cyan]

He has been talking on Twitter about a cancelled project on which he was working, which they named "DragonFlies" during the concept phase.

- It was a game of a Samurai / Ninja against zombies, using Dragons as a mount and cooperative PvE.
- Dragons are basically used as "airplanes" and the game world was divided into floating islands.
- The combat used melee and long-distance weapons, in addition to a customizable Dragon for combat.
· The setting was going to be "FeudalPunk" style
· The idea was born of "errors" (he flags them as "mistake" on Twitter) of "Lair" and "Scalebound".

 

[Billy Idol]

Fck sake...I would have bought this game

 

[Shifty Geezer]

· The idea was born of "errors" (he flags them as "mistake" on Twitter) of "Lair" and "Scalebound".

Well they've already managed to repeat the biggest mistake of Scalebound.

Spoiler

Never releasing.

 

[Cyan]

Fck sake...I would have bought this game

another mistake.

Well they've already managed to repeat the biggest mistake of Scalebound.

Spoiler

Never releasing.

the art style of this game, I like. The only issue I have with it is that Clffy B. pulled the generic card, cos I hate zombies.

Maybe a Kickstarter campaign for Cliff Bleszinski.