Epic Sues Apple and Google due to Fortnite getting pulled [2020-08-13, 2021-05-03]

[zed]

Apple has NOTHING like the desktop monopoly that MS had when it killed Netscape. We're talking 95%.

Its getting close
https://gs.statcounter.com/browser-market-share/mobile/united-states-of-america
so minimum of 56% (but prolly >= 2/3 as ppl like myself dont use safari on IOS)

WRT monopoly, well I thought that has already been decided, note monopoly does not mean 100%

The House Judiciary subcommittee released a report on Tuesday that said that Apple has “monopoly power” over software distribution on iPhones.

 

[Deleted member 11852]

Its getting close https://gs.statcounter.com/browser-market-share/mobile/united-states-of-america
so minimum of 56% (but prolly >= 2/3 as ppl like myself dont use safari on IOS)

This in itself is a fascinating statistic. iOS market share is a third of Android but in terms of browsers, Safari (which is only available on iOS) accounts for just over half of all mobile browsers used. The stat is the stat but my question would be, why are so few Android users browsers on their devices because that's kind of what it looks like.

 

[zed]

I think you're misunderstanding this is USA only (not worldwide)
In the USA IOS > 60% of mobile devices, thus andoird is < 40%

Worldwide android is the dominant player >71%

 

[wco81]

Yeah I didn't think Mobile Safari would have over 50% marketshare worldwide. iOS only has big market shares in a handful of countries like the US, UK, Japan and maybe a couple of others. Not necessarily majority market share in those countries either.

I don't know how popular other browsers are on Android but I think it's still the case that Mobile Safari is default on iOS and there is not yet a way to set a third-party browser on iOS? That will change soon but for now it's Safari. I use DuckDuckGo as well but I don't mind that I have to launch it manually rather than tapping a link opening it in DDG.

But the point isn't about browser share. It's about device/OS/platform share. iOS and iOS devices are nowhere near the 95% desktop OS share that MS had. I think Windows is still at least high 80s if not still over 90%.

That means a developer has a much greater market on Android if they're unhappy with Apple policies, not to mention Windows. They could also cut specific deals with Samsung or other high-volume manufacturers like the Chinese brands. The remedy already exists if they don't want to be bound by Apple rules.

 

[dobwal]

This in itself is a fascinating statistic. iOS market share is a third of Android but in terms of browsers, Safari (which is only available on iOS) accounts for just over half of all mobile browsers used. The stat is the stat but my question would be, why are so few Android users browsers on their devices because that's kind of what it looks like.

Your link seems to indicate that is only for the US where ios owns half the market. When you click on worldwide, Chrome has close to ~65% of the market.

 

[wco81]

Google Play cuts App Store fees by half to 15% on some apps.

https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/202...h-new-15-revenue-share-for-certain-play-apps/


There you go, Android already has greater market share. So all the whining developers can go there. If their apps are so great and contribute to the ecosystem rather than leech off it, they can make Android more attractive than iOS and also make more money there.

If they stay on the App Store despite lower prices on GP and far larger mobile software market, then what is going to be their excuse?

 

[pcchen]

Google Play cuts App Store fees by half to 15% on some apps.

https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/202...h-new-15-revenue-share-for-certain-play-apps/

15% on first 1 million each year sounds like a reasonable compromise. Of course, it kind of the reverse of what Steam is doing (you get discount when you sell more, not less), but it's better PR-wise IMHO.

 

[wco81]

The Vergecast was discussing the upcoming Apple vs. Epic trial, which starts in May.

They discussed emails among Apple execs, including Federighi talking about how iMessage is probably what keeps families from getting their kids Android phones. Lot of discussion about how important iMessage is to iOS and iPhone, apparently.


OK, what does this have to do with App Store policies? Did Epic even complain about Apple's first-party apps or do they plan to say Apple wants lock-in?

No iMessage and some other features draw people to iOS and probably give the a reason to stay with iOS. They generally have been introducing "tentpole" features to make their platform and devices more attractive.


So could a remedy, either in this trial or in antitrust enforcement, force Apple to port iMessage, FaceTime and other key features to Android, Windows and other platforms?

How would that benefit Epic or address their claims?


Apple has a huge target on their backs. Looks like people are digging for ways to knock it down a few pegs, including ways which have little or nothing to do with App Store policies.

 

[MfA]

The Vergecast was discussing the upcoming Apple vs. Epic trial, which starts in May.
So could a remedy, either in this trial or in antitrust enforcement, force Apple to port iMessage, FaceTime and other key features to Android, Windows and other platforms?

A judge considered breaking up Microsoft into an operating system and an application unit.

Apple being vertically integrated on operating system, applications and hardware will become a far more obnoxious monopoly than Microsoft ever was.

 

[wco81]

It's not nowhere near a monopoly.

Much less 95% marketshare.

In pretty much most of the world, people buy something other than an Apple device. In the developing world, some places are over 90% Android.

MS was telling other companies what to do, not just Dells and Compaqs but they wanted Apple to kill QuickTime for Windows.

 

[MfA]

Give it time.

Apple won't have to tell anyone what to do ... the Internet has turned everything into a massive winner take all bonanza. With Apple the only company truly situated to make the best use of that market because they can win on all sides even without selling out customers to advertisers. Hardware, software and services .... all their tentpoles in one tent they also own and even if they allow other poles in, they automatically get cut down 30% in size.

 

[wco81]

Apple might be able to sustain over 50% market share in the US. Not just peak after the big holiday quarter but average at least 50% throughout the year.

But it will never do that in other countries except maybe a handful like UK or Japan.

Everywhere else, it's Android because of price.

 

[MfA]

US, UK, Japan ... then you just need Germany and France and that's all the big economies. They are around 33% there and trending up.

Give it time. Android will be like AMD was to Intel, kept on lifesupport to avoid regulation ... but the buy in of the Apple customer base is immensely higher than Intel's, they have much more room to fuck around before they lose their advantage.

Apple will become the most obnoxious tech monopoly in history, the winner take all aspect of the Internet and interconnected services has changed the rules.

 

[wco81]

Germany is too value conscious. Not sure about France. But most of the EU are Android because they have been able to get 99 Euro phones which are functional at least for a long time.

And the rest of the world it's things like WhatsApp and some other messaging apps which are huge.

China is also of course a huge market. Apple needs it for growth. They skim the cream of the market willing to pay more. So it helps Apple's overall volume but they will never achieve majority share there. But there are plenty of good cheaper domestic brands there and there's always a chance that they go nationalistic and stop buying iPhones.

 

[MfA]

And the rest of the world it's things like WhatsApp and some other messaging apps which are huge.

All those apps are on iPhones but no iMessage on Android, it's a losing battle. Because of the fundamentally different and strictly inferior funding structure of the non Apple ecosystem all those apps need to datamine their users, this will become increasingly seen as unacceptable.

Apple and only Apple can offer an ecosystem entirely funded by hardware sales and and appstore fees. It would cost trillions at this late point to set up any real competition, the relative sufficiency of Google helped to give Apple its advantage ... even though it's ultimately a losing strategy, it eventually roped everyone except Apple in. Also for a moment Microsoft, but they lacked stamina and the media relentlessly beat the drums for Android at the time made their strategy a hard sell for investors ... Microsoft giving up on mobile will be the death of them.

Winner take all, and Apple is the winner. These days are the dying gasps of the market.

China won't accept Apple dominance, but western aligned countries won't accept the Chinese alternatives either ... China will just have their not so little corner to play around in.

 

[wco81]

Typical of what you'd expect from Hawley, bald faced lies:

Josh Hawley had some questions about how Apple came up with the money to buy back $58 billion in stock over the past year.

“I just want to focus on one major source of that income,” the Republican senator said to Apple’s lawyer. “It’s not innovation, it’s not research and development. It’s the monopoly rents that you collect out of your app store.”

https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy...ested-in-apples-and-googles-rents/?comments=1


No you dipshit, that money came from repatriated tens of billions from the GOP tax law.

Had NOTHING to do with App Store revenues.

But this POS will lie about it to punish "Big Tech" because they don't allow unmoderated right-wing conspiracy BS.

Republicans don't care about antitrust law specifically. They just want whatever pretext they can use to hurt tech companies. And grifters like Sweeney will happily let douchebags like Hawley demagogue against Apple and other tech companies.

 

[tuna]

wco81: Whataboutism at its finest!

 

[wco81]

Apple announced a huge investment, $430 billion in the US over 5 years, investment in every state, 20,000 high-paying job and a big facility in North Carolina, where I believe they previously had data centers.

They had previously announced plans to invest $350 billion so this is an increase over that.

I guess they're trying to show that they plan to spread some of their wealth and invest in the American economy.

Will it get the political hounds off their case? Probably not.

 

[MfA]

They aren't doing that out of charity, they are foreseeing massive growth because of increased success of their monopoly ... just like me.

 

[wco81]

Whether they are a monopoly are not has to be determined by the courts adjudicating an antitrust case.

They can be a monopoly but as long as they're not doing anything illegal to maintain or expand that monopoly, they are okay. Or else MS would have been broken up into pieces like AT&T.