How come artificial? Sales of HD-DVD that consist mostly of a HD-DVD addon for a console is not artificial then?
Engaget: 360 v2 'Zephyr' - HDMI, 65nm?, 120gb HDD (picture)
- Thread starter Graham
- Start date
With the DS lite, which is a purely physical redesign, there was a pretty significant impact on sales. I'm looking at week #59 to week #65 in this chart. The obvious explanation is that potential customers where holding out for the improved version.
Of course further nurturing the "There could eventually be an HDMI cable for the old onez!" bullshit is one way to sidestep such consumer reactions.
Prospector: "I ... don't know. The flat is nice but I don't want to live on the seventh floor without an elevator. How am I even supposed to get my furniture up there?"
Landlord: "You know what I heard the other day son? There's a rumor going around that says there is still a chance that gravity will soon halve in strength. Going up those stairs is going to be a breeze!"
The difference between the two is that the HD-DVD add-on is purchased ONLY for viewing movies, while most PS3s are purchased for other reasons (like selling on eBay
)scooby_dooby
Legend
The overall sales of HD-DVD? You mean the fact it's sold 6 times as many dedicated playback devices as Bluray? Please elaborate.
Also it's not nearly the same issue as PS3 not supporting 1080i. Component will always be available, so no HDTV user will ever be left without an HD signal. If ICT ever gets flipped on it's an issue, but still the user would have gotten 4-5years of HD playback for $200, so again completely different scenario.
scooby_dooby
Legend
That has absolutely nothign to do with sales plummeting.
And in a handheld device the size and form factor of the device are a very important feature to the majority, HDMI in consoles is not, with an overall install base of probably less than 5-10%. So you're comparing apples and oranges.
scooby_dooby
Legend
In what way is an add-on different than a standalone player? Both are dedicated playback devices which have been purchased explicitly for watching HD-DVD movies. This is pretty simple stuff here...
inefficient
Veteran
Well, that was exactly what I was questioning there too
This is pretty simple stuff here...
scooby_dooby
Legend
Well, that was exactly what I was questioning there too
You're not making any sense whatsoever. What does the lack of HDMI tell you about "the overall sales of HD-DVD than anything else."??
That they are much higher than BR? That it has no problem selling without HDMI? What are you taking about?
No, that an addon is the best selling HD-DVD device, not the lack of HDMI. That it's selling to a relatively narrow and limited market, if that's true. Learn to read.
scooby_dooby
Legend
Eliminate the add-on and HD-DVD is still outselling BR 5:1. If it's selling to a narrow and limited market, than BR is selling to an extremely limited and narrow market.
Learn to make logical arguments.
Considering neither format has been any hot seller thus far, the sales numbers have been pretty trivial.
Potential Blu-ray buyers have obviously waited for the PS3, while potential HD-DVD buyers have not waited but snapped either a standalone Toshiba, or if they wanted a relatively risk-free, cheap introduction to HD-DVD, bougth the xbox addon (assuming they already owned an xbox360).
Essentially, the HD-DVD has been on the market for six months longer, because, honestly, who bought the Samsung players knowing they'd soon be able to buy a better featured, PS3 that was a better Blu-ray player to boot.
Potential Blu-ray buyers have obviously waited for the PS3, while potential HD-DVD buyers have not waited but snapped either a standalone Toshiba, or if they wanted a relatively risk-free, cheap introduction to HD-DVD, bougth the xbox addon (assuming they already owned an xbox360).
Essentially, the HD-DVD has been on the market for six months longer, because, honestly, who bought the Samsung players knowing they'd soon be able to buy a better featured, PS3 that was a better Blu-ray player to boot.
scooby_dooby
Legend
I was referring to install base not software sales, only 25,000 BR standalones have been sold, while over 120,000 HD-DVD's are in the market.
Considering 800,000 BR players in the form of PS3 have just entered the market, obviously there should be a signifigant uptrend in software sales.
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Ok gotcha. Although that said, those numbers are really coming from nowhere. The guy's claims on 360 add-on and PS3 sales numbers put his methodology as extremely questionable in my book. The 150k and 400k numbers are exactly the expected launch availability numbers, and ultimately are derived from little more than PR statements.
Toshiba said 175k players in North America - that's really the only hard numbers we have.
Yeah well "plummeting" maybe not, because that's too subjective, but the sales dropped to two thirds of what they could IMO have been without the introduction of the respin.
If I discard the exaggerated pre-Christmas data and look at July, August, September (slow/normal months for CE sales), the DS phat sold 54k per week. Then comes the Christmas rush, then comes the last week of January where the DS lite was announced and a huge inventory blowout happened in the week (111k). The following four weeks are the time between the announcement and first availbility of the DS lite, and the sales fell through to 33k units per week. Even if I factor in the blowout week, it's down to 48k.
Starting with DS lite availability we're looking at 150k per week average even in the slower months of the year.
I still believe that jump is significant and has a lot to do with the introduction of the revised model.
Now, yeah, it's not exactly the same kind of revision with the 360, but there is common ground. Both revisions make the product better and more desirable. Making a home console easier to hold in your hands isn't necessary. Giving a portable gaming device with specialized integrated screens more video output options isn't necessary. It's no surprise that both revisions only improve areas that are relevant to the intended useage of the respective device.
OTOH when Mr Microsoft representative says they don't have plans for a revision, it begs the question why he would say something like that. The new video download functionality is pretty gimped with the current drive sizes, they'd be nuts to keep it that way. As you might expect, I think he proves me right by, err, defying common sense just to minimize the sales impact from those who'd decide to wait for the revision if they knew what it adds and when it comes to market.
If they care enough about that to go on record with a denial, you bet it amounts to some money.
scooby_dooby
Legend
I'm not arguing that announcing a new model before bringing it to market would negatively impact sales, that's common sense, of course to some degree it will.
I'm arguing about the degree. HDMI is nowhere near as desireable as people here make it seem, and if the only addition was an HDMI port I can't see the majority of people really caring.
I'm arguing about the degree. HDMI is nowhere near as desireable as people here make it seem, and if the only addition was an HDMI port I can't see the majority of people really caring.
HDMI alone is not compelling, it's more natural to expect them to add other updates onto the hardware. If the price is higher than the current model like NDS Lite it won't get any criticism.
I think it will just basically come down to, people who are aware this upgrade is in the works may be inclined to wait, and those that don't know, won't. Ultimately it would only effect (in a negative sales sense) folk who are inclined to get a 360 anyway - it's simply their purchase will aggregate later. So I don't think the net effect on the 360 install base is a negative one when everything is said and done. For financial reasons, it makes sense why Microsoft would want present emphasis to be on existing stocks though.
