Emulators for nextgen consoles - is it possible?

[Dave Baumann]

Even DreamCast emulation is just barely visible.

Maybe if allot more people had Kyro II boards we'd see more DC emu's? Allot of cards would probably have a hard time with some of the overdraw levels present in DC games. Just a theory.

I'm sure if Simon had seen this thread he would have pointed out that the lack of VQ compression (which, IIRC, many/most DC titles actually used) would be the biggest stumbling block for the use of KYRO based boards. That being the case most current 3D boards are more powerful than KYROII and would do the job just as well.

 

[Teasy]

I know that Geforce 4 and especially Radeon 9700 would be faster then Kyro II even with high overdraw, but cards like that are too expensive to be widespread. Emu's are made when they can be handled by most lower end cards out there. I was just saying that if Kyro II was the low end card of choice for most people we may have more DC emu's.

 

[Ty]

I know that Geforce 4 and especially Radeon 9700 would be faster then Kyro II even with high overdraw, but cards like that are too expensive to be widespread. Emu's are made when they can be handled by most lower end cards out there. I was just saying that if Kyro II was the low end card of choice for most people we may have more DC emu's.

But (generally speaking) is the problem with emulation performance to do with the fillrate of video card though?

 

[Teasy]

Hmmm, I really don't know for sure. But the real difference in DC is the video part isn't it? The CPU isn't anything out of the ordinary AFAIK. But as I say I don't really know for sure, maybe I'm totally wrong. I just think that Kyro II would be a better fit for a DC emu then most other cards out there.

 

[Dave Baumann]

Emu's are made when they can be handled by most lower end cards out there.

Errr, I would have thought that EMU's would generally have reasonable high spec PC hardware in mind to make the task easier. You'd only really 'targer' low end graphics if you intend to try an make this commercial - yo my knowledge only 'Bleem' has attempted this and I don't really forsee it happening again.

To my mind EMU builders are the sort who like to hack into hardware and then recode that elsewhere. And this is where I think the problem lies right now - is there the interest in the PC market for that to occur? With the PS2 Linux kit and people trying to circumvent MS's XBox security changes all the time I think quite a lot of the people who'd do this have their attention diverted.

 

[Tagrineth]

Hmmm, I really don't know for sure. But the real difference in DC is the video part isn't it? The CPU isn't anything out of the ordinary AFAIK. But as I say I don't really know for sure, maybe I'm totally wrong. I just think that Kyro II would be a better fit for a DC emu then most other cards out there.

An SH-4 not out of the ordinary? What? It isn't even remotely x86-compatible...

 

[Fafalada]

I'm sure if Simon had seen this thread he would have pointed out that the lack of VQ compression (which, IIRC, many/most DC titles actually used) would be the biggest stumbling block for the use of KYRO based boards.

VQ compression can be emulated relatively easily if the chip supports dependant texture lookups (iirc, Kyro does). (Actually you can emulate it without it too, but it'd be difficult to make a "transparent" interface to it with other methods).
I don't see any such easy way to handle modifier volumes though, with Kyro or any other card. I agree though, more powerful chips should make things easier.

Anyway, the charm of emulation for me has been the nostalgia factor related with bringing older hw to life again. Particularly since even with 10-15 years headstart, those emus are still far from perfect - they aren't a proper replacement for the real thing - if you can still get one.

 

[Reznor007]

Anyway, the charm of emulation for me has been the nostalgia factor related with bringing older hw to life again. Particularly since even with 10-15 years headstart, those emus are still far from perfect - they aren't a proper replacement for the real thing - if you can still get one.

Yeah, I'm into it more for nostalgia and as a technical thing. Emulating the early 3d Atari games(Hard Divin/Race Drivin and Steel Talons) was VERY complicated.

And even though I have access to almost any old game using MAME, I still prefer the original(and I own 4 arcade games even though I can play them easily in MAME for free).

 

[Simon F]

Even DreamCast emulation is just barely visible.

Maybe if allot more people had Kyro II boards we'd see more DC emu's? Allot of cards would probably have a hard time with some of the overdraw levels present in DC games. Just a theory.

I'm sure if Simon had seen this thread he would have pointed out that the lack of VQ compression (which, IIRC, many/most DC titles actually used) would be the biggest stumbling block for the use of KYRO based boards. That being the case most current 3D boards are more powerful than KYROII and would do the job just as well.

I would have said "translucency sorting" or the "modifier volume" support. VQ can 'easily' be emulated by an 8-fold increase in texture size.

 

[jvd]

Sh-4 was at the time a crazy chip. They modded it for better fp performance if i'm not mistaken. I actually see the xbox being emulated soon. Well before the dreamcast , gamecube and ps2. My rig should easily play any x box games(athlon xp 2000+ , 1gig of ddr333 , ati radeon 9700 pro.) Remember xbox games play at a very low res

 

[Laa-Yosh]

If this info is true about the NV2A (and why shouldn't it be) then I don't think any ordinary PC graphics card could emulate the Xbox hardware...

I wouldn't really consider it something less. All it lacks in comparison to the GF4 is basically LMAII and Accuview, but it keeps the quad-cache and gains certain geometry features that are present in the NV30 (one I know of being the ability to make signed stencil buffer additions). I also believe the NV2A may have more static instructions and constants.

I've heard that the NV25 is not capable of collision detection on-chip using vertex shaders. I do remember the devs for Wreckless saying that the NV2A's vertex shaders could in fact be used for collision detection, something that the NV30 is able to do.

Original post by DeathKnight on the 3D Hardware forum here