Editorial: Nintendo Wii, Harbinger For The Death Of Gaming

[tongue_of_colicab]

The moment I found out the Wii was basically an overclocked GC selling for $250, half of my interest in it vanished. The fact the title I'm most interested in is a remake of a GC game (RE4 Wii) and only because it's going to sell for $30 to me is pretty sad. When I look at the Wii's game selection most of it is shovelware/ports. Conversely I could easily name at least 12 titles for X360 that I'm interested in compared to only about 3 for Wii. I'm glad Nintendo is making lots of money, but my days of cheering for them are over. If they had packed a little bit more processing power into the console, I would've been happy...the stupid thing can't even play DVD movies!!! The Panasonic Q could play DVD movies.

Well the x360 is out for over a year now, the Wii 4 months. Not really realistic to compare the game libary. It took x360 almost a year before the good titles started to come out, before that it was basically rubbish too.

 

[Capeta]

Well the x360 is out for over a year now, the Wii 4 months. Not really realistic to compare the game libary. It took x360 almost a year before the good titles started to come out, before that it was basically rubbish too.

That excuse doesn't hold water since it's just an overclocked GC which developers are already familiar with. We shouldn't need to wait a year for the good games to come out with new controls. That's why RE4 will be released shortly (6 months after launch) since all the development was already done on the GC version. Nintendo released Wii a year later not to mention underpowered even for its price. The Wii controller seemed compelling initially but not many games have made good use of it so far, most fall into the gimmicky bin. Kinda funny that a $30 remake of RE4 will be more compelling than most of the Wii games out there to date. At least this gives people a good excuse to wait for the Wii to drop in price like the PS3.

 

[fearsomepirate]

About the PSP-DS analogy though, I dont think its a right one...I own a PSP and I am struggling to find games. DS has more games that I find interesting.

When are you going to get over the idea that this has nothing to do with you personally? What you personally like and dislike is irrelevant to talking about other demographics, as though you not liking something means a certain demographic doesn't exist. The point I was making is that there is clearly a demographics for the PSP, and there is clearly a demographic for the DS, and the two don't seem to overlap much. People interpret the larger DS demo as meaning "failure and doom" for the PSP, but the fact is that the PSP's demographic is healthy, just smaller.

I'll repeat: The same thing seems to be happening with the consoles. The Wii is appealing to a different set of people than the X360/PS3, with a small overlap. I personally am in the latter set, but that does not mean that the people whom the Wii appeal to cease to exist! That set of people appears potentially to be larger, but that fact is hardly destroying the demographic that's interested in the more powerful machines.

Which demographic you personally fit into could not be more irrelevant.

Dont serious gamers and non-nintendo fans have a right on that controler as well?

US patent law says "no."

If its not alienating hardcore gamers from the industry, it does alienate them from Wii.

Irrelevant. The Civic Hybrid alienates SUV enthusiasts, but there are millions of people it doesn't alienate. There are over 6 million people that the Wii hasn't alienated. That's not a bad start.

 

[one]

As long as there are overweight people Wii sells, which is a good thing to continue the business.

 

[cthellis42]

Nintendo needs to show that 3rd parties can make money on a regular basis instead of the platform being a crap shoot.

DS did pretty much that. Besides I think Wii 3rd party games are already doing pretty well. Atleast as far as titles as godfather, ssx and dbz go, hear alot of people bought those games.

Not to seem confrontational or anything, but it really didn't. Nintendo has owned the portable sector almost wholesale since the beginning, so really what the DS showed is that they wouldn't immediately lose ground to the PSP, and would instead retain their leadership position. The home console sector, for Nintendo, is an entirely different matter, and one where Nintendo had been consistently losing ground and getting more and more insular with each generation.

And while I don't give credence to the top-article's author's doomsday-like tone, his points are not completely off-base. And there are certainly things to worry about regarding the Wii that even the hardcore fans recognize.

They're still slow on the ball right now, but at least there's a lot more encouragement this gen.

As far as I am concerned the PS3 and its outragous 599 dollar price point to help win a movie format war is 1000 times worse for gaming than the Wii.

$499. Contrary to popular opinion, you are NOT a complete lamebrain if you don't buy the more expensive SKU as is the case with the 360.

Of course everyone seems to thing so anyway, which is odd. I guess in for a penny...

I'll repeat: The same thing seems to be happening with the consoles. The Wii is appealing to a different set of people than the X360/PS3, with a small overlap. I personally am in the latter set, but that does not mean that the people whom the Wii appeal to cease to exist! That set of people appears potentially to be larger, but that fact is hardly destroying the demographic that's interested in the more powerful machines.

People also seem to forget that once you start getting people into gaming at ALL, they may eventually "graduate" to higher levels and refine their interests. It may not happen overnight, but give it a few years...

I mean, I kinda curse WoW's negative development affect on MMORPG's (IMHO, of course), but eventually some of those people have to get bored and want more... right? (Right?? ^_^;; ) Even if it's only small percentages moving along the "hardcore" path, when you're expanding the market any reasonable size, you're expanding it for everyone.

 

[tongue_of_colicab]

That excuse doesn't hold water since it's just an overclocked GC which developers are already familiar with.

Can you name any dev besides capcom and F5 that actually made a decent GC engine?

We shouldn't need to wait a year for the good games to come out with new controls.

We do as many devs didnt do great things with GC and didnt jump on the Wii bandwagon and are now playing catch up. You cant make a good game in a couple of months time.

Nintendo released Wii a year later not to mention underpowered even for its price.

isnt that economy? why sell it for under 250 if you can sell everything you have at 250?

The Wii controller seemed compelling initially but not many games have made good use of it so far, most fall into the gimmicky bin.

And we all know that isnt because of the wii but because of devs doing quick ports. Though there are ''plenty'' of games making good use of it. Red Steel, exite truck, godfather (beating someone up has never been this fun), ssx (though I didnt like it), that DBZ game and that are just the games that I own and they are rushed or ports so they dont even take full advantage of the Wii.

Not to seem confrontational or anything, but it really didn't. Nintendo has owned the portable sector almost wholesale since the beginning, so really what the DS showed is that they wouldn't immediately lose ground to the PSP, and would instead retain their leadership position.

But that wasnt the point right? we were talking about nintendo and 3rd party sales.

 

[scooby_dooby]

Keyword here : me. Which tends to imply that Nesh was expressing his opinion of the compared upcoming games for the Wii and the PS3/360. That's twice in a row, in this thread that you deform people's posts in order to further your p(r)etty transparent bias. Could you please stop doing that, and actually debate what was said ?

Actually the problem is you reading my post through the lens of your percieved bias. I happen to like Nintendo, I always have and always will. I just think it's unrealistic to pretend the strength of Wii's 3rd party library is realistically open to opinion, it's weak period. Where's the 2007 lineup?

We can debate forever, but we need a solid 2 years of sales to see if the Wii has legs or not, if there are good 3rd party games it can stay alive, but those will take a while to show.

 

[fearsomepirate]

Let's bring this back on topic:

The original claim of the editorial was that the Wii is going to kill video gaming because there is a glut of new gamers that aren't interested in the big-budget stuff. Therefore, companies will produce only games like Cooking Mama and Brain Training, and the hardware manufacturers will produce only low-power devices with gimmicky controls, as summarized by the following quote:

Perhaps the worst part about all of this is that Nintendo is having a great deal of success with this formula. It’s really only a matter of time before Sony and Microsoft wake up and realize that Nintendo is destroying their sales numbers, and when this happens they’ll follow suit and change their aim to target the new gamer. There will be a new console war, one that doesn’t include us.

So far, we've seen three responses in this thread:
1. I don't like Wii.
2. I like Wii.
3. No, the big-budget is not going to be abandoned, as there are still millions upon millions of dollars to be made in that portion of the industry, and a number of companies are still thriving off it. Where there is money to be made, someone will be making it.
4. Wii's success may be overblown, for it is true that its 3rd-party titles are not terribly high quality, but they also are not tearing up the charts.

The first two responses don't actually deal with the editorial. Has anyone in this thread actually agreed with the bolded conclusion of the editorial?

 

[quest55720]

$499. Contrary to popular opinion, you are NOT a complete lamebrain if you don't buy the more expensive SKU as is the case with the 360.

I don't consider a model sony shipped very few of that are as hard to find as a wii a real alternative. Sony does not even sell the 499 model any more best buy has discountinued it. The 499 model right now IMO has been basically killed. Either not enough demand or sony was taking to much of a loss on it.

 

[Rolf N]

Nintendo's core market is not people who love FPS's. The "hardcore gamer" would not benefit hugely from owning a Wii.

*twitch*
Ooooookay. I'm breathing.
*gazes into the void above the crowd*
What is a "hardcore gamer"? Anyone who wants to use that term from now on will be required to wear a green wrist-band. You can get them at the booth over there if you deliver an acceptable explanation of the term. You can also get yellow a wrist-band if you have can explain the term "casual game" in a sufficiently correct way that is not "The opposite of hardcore?!?!?" or a paraphrase thereof, at the same booth.

Free hints:

• Spending a lot of time playing games doesn't make you a hardcore gamer, and doesn't mean whatever your taste buds react to must be a hardcore game.
• The ability to kill things, maybe see their heads explode and their guts spill on the floor, is completely orthogonal to casual/hardcore game spectrometrics.
• A game doesn't move in the hardcore direction by simulating a brothel. That only works for certain other forms of entertainment.

Free examples:

• Chibi Robo is a hardcore game
• Pokémon mainline are hardcore games
• Tetris is a casual game
• Call Of Duty 2 is casual (and horrible, and almost not a game to boot; speaking of the Gamecube version)
• Rhythm Heaven is a hardcore game
• Wario Ware Smooth Moves is casual
• Oblivion is more casual than Morrowind
• Final Fantasy X-2 is more hardcore than Final Fantasy X (and at the same time a much worse game)

That should set everyone up. Thank you for your participation.

 

[cthellis42]

But that wasnt the point right? we were talking about nintendo and 3rd party sales.

Yes, but we were also talking trends and track records. Some people might have been worried that Sony would pull off the same trick as with the original Playstation and overcome Nintendo's position, but the save money was still on Nintendo's portable platform, and it would still have continued to sell a LOT even if toppled. Not only that, but the risks are far lower, development time far less, and so developers/publishers could respond to portable trends a lot easier. There was much less real concern, even though there was a whole lot of opinions flying around the press and blogosphere.

I don't consider a model sony shipped very few of that are as hard to find as a wii a real alternative. Sony does not even sell the 499 model any more best buy has discountinued it. The 499 model right now IMO has been basically killed. Either not enough demand or sony was taking to much of a loss on it.

True now, I suppose, but a recent development. You could still pick up that model easily enough, last time I checked. I wasn't keeping track of how badly stock had dried up.

Seems odd to me, though, since everything you got out of the $600 SKU you actually COULD upgrade to cheaply enough with generic devices (I have most sitting around the house, in fact)--including the HD--and none of them actually interfered with your experiences as a gaming or multimedia device. I guess most people just didn't see that, most stores reacted the same way with the PS3 as they did the 360 Core and Premium, and so extra sales didn't actually make up for manufacturing losses or maintaining multiple production lines. Maybe I can still find one and spend the cost difference on a WAY bigger hard drive.

There is, of course, the other thread speculating about what might be up.

 

[Nesh]

When are you going to get over the idea that this has nothing to do with you personally? What you personally like and dislike is irrelevant to talking about other demographics, as though you not liking something means a certain demographic doesn't exist. The point I was making is that there is clearly a demographics for the PSP, and there is clearly a demographic for the DS, and the two don't seem to overlap much. People interpret the larger DS demo as meaning "failure and doom" for the PSP, but the fact is that the PSP's demographic is healthy, just smaller.

You are trying to much to stick on an I in an efford to show how wrong I am but at the same time you put so many unspoken words in my mouth

There is nothing to get over from because thats the reason PSP doesnt do well in software. Its not my opinion.

I didnt say anything about existing and non-existing demographic and I havent ruled out any of them. The PSP lacks the kind of games that are suitable for the demographic that belongs to the majority, and the reason that demographic is huge is because PSP doesnt have the games that are best suitable for a handheld. And this is not my opinion. This is actually me putting myself on other people's shoes. If I didnt I would have been saying that DS is like Wii. But it is NOT.

What you also claimed is nothing more than your opinion: that its a certain demographic that buys for certain reasons these games. Perhaps you should ask yourself if you are the one who has to get over it?

I'll repeat: The same thing seems to be happening with the consoles. The Wii is appealing to a different set of people than the X360/PS3, with a small overlap. I personally am in the latter set, but that does not mean that the people whom the Wii appeal to cease to exist! That set of people appears potentially to be larger, but that fact is hardly destroying the demographic that's interested in the more powerful machines.

point me out where I claimed that the certain demographic/different set of people should not be targeted at all or where I said its not targeted.

Also why dont you read again my post and find the part where I rethought the article and came up to the conclusion that Wii may actually not affect the other side?

Which demographic you personally fit into could not be more irrelevant.

No its not irrelevant. See what you are doing now? You are saying that on Wii one dempgraphic is more important than the other while what I did is only point out that ALL should be targeted and all should be respected the same.

US patent law says "no."

What the? What on earth is that supposed to mean?
A patent that prohibits a group consumsers from enjoying a product?

Irrelevant. The Civic Hybrid alienates SUV enthusiasts, but there are millions of people it doesn't alienate. There are over 6 million people that the Wii hasn't alienated. That's not a bad start.

Bad analogy. This is even worse than comparing cucumber to mango.

Almost if not all would prefer to have a feature such as a good airconditioning system in their cars or a CD player whether they are sports car/speed enthusiasts or family/comfy car lovers.

What you are actually doing is trying to tell people that "mr A belong to that demographic so he shouldnt care about air conditioning and CD player, because yhe likes only speed because I said so" and mr B loves comfortable cars so logically comfortable driving, a good airconditioning system and a CD player is suitable only for him because I said so"

Remember that its just your opinion that Wii is targeted and should be targeted only for certain people.

 

[scooby_dooby]

*twitch*
Ooooookay. I'm breathing.
*gazes into the void above the crowd*
What is a "hardcore gamer"?

Easy, anyone who will spend over $300 on a game machine is a hardcore gamer. Anyone who refuses to pay that much, is a casual.

*ahem* Where exactly do I get my sweet green wristband??

 

[fearsomepirate]

What you also claimed is nothing more than your opinion: that its a certain demographic that buys for certain reasons these games.

That has nothing to do with my personal like or dislike of a machine and its game library. Further, the demographic is defined by the product it buys. Since Wii sales are greater than zero, there certainly is a demographic that buys Wii. And they almost certainly have reasons for buying the machine. That the reasons for buying Wii differ from the reasons for buying a 360 or PS3 should be sufficiently obvious from the near-complete dissimilarity of the machines.

What the? What on earth is that supposed to mean? A patent that prohibits a group consumsers from enjoying a product?

Yes, it does. Nintendo's patents prohibt the group of consumers who do not buy their products from enjoying their inventions. In fact, they even prohibit consumers from enjoying Nintendo's inventions if Nintendo chooses not to manufacture them. From your own mouth:

Dont serious gamers and non-nintendo fans have a right on that controler as well?

No, you really have no rights whatsoever regarding Nintendo's controller. Nintendo could refuse to manufacture it entirely, or they could choose to license only Pong clones for their system. That's how patent law works.

Bad analogy.

That's because you don't understand what analogies are. As with every analogy, there are similarities and dissimilarities. In this case, a Civic Hybrid lacks a number of features that SUV enthusiasts require from their vehicles (horsepower, cargo space) and for that reason does not appeal to those people. However, that does not make it a failure, because it has other features that appeal very much to another group of people (mileage, handling, tax breaks). That's the similarity to a Wii vs a 360. If you actually disagree that Wii and 360 have different features that appeal to different folks for different reasons, I can't help you. But I assure you that they are indeed not the same.

By the way, did you know that the Chevy Aveo5 value model doesn't feature a CD player or air conditioning? That's because it has a feature called "low price" that some people would rather have than the previous two features.

 

[Capeta]

Can you name any dev besides capcom and F5 that actually made a decent GC engine?

Namco, Konami, SEGA

We do as many devs didnt do great things with GC and didnt jump on the Wii bandwagon and are now playing catch up. You cant make a good game in a couple of months time.

That's still Nintendo's problem...justifying it isn't going to magically make it disappear.

isnt that economy? why sell it for under 250 if you can sell everything you have at 250?

Are you serious? Nintendo had NO IDEA if the Wii would do as well as it did at $250...that is unless they consulted Mrs Cleo.

And we all know that isnt because of the wii but because of devs doing quick ports.

Again that's still Nintendo's problem. It's a weak console so it will be used as a port machine. Heck even the original IPs are weak...Excite Truck?

Though there are ''plenty'' of games making good use of it. Red Steel, exite truck, godfather (beating someone up has never been this fun), ssx (though I didnt like it), that DBZ game and that are just the games that I own and they are rushed or ports so they dont even take full advantage of the Wii.

Plenty? You have got to be kidding...RS turned out to be crap, ET turned out to be crap, SSX didn't look too good or fun. Anyway why do you think all the BIG GAMES (high production value) are only coming to X360/PS3?

The reality is the Wii isn't going to be like the PS2 where it was the primary development platform even if it's the #1 selling console. The Wii will be relegated to a crappy port machine with new controls tacked on. Why spend $10 million to develop a Wii game when the target demographic (casuals) aren't even going to buy it?

 

[oli2]

Capeta, i think we get your main point.

I think you take as a given that all 3 consoles will basically have the same games, simply adapted graphically to each of those.

You took as an example of games VT3. This is an interesting one because it just bombed in Japan (don't know about US and Europe).
Why ? There are probably loads of reasons but i think a big one is the comparison to Wii tennis.

Take note that i do await for a VT game on Wii.

You consistently make as if there never will be games tailored, designed from ground around Wiimote for Wii.
Taking as examples games such DMC4 (as if 2 & 3 weren't crap), SC5, AC6, etc. (do they really deserve AAA label ?), does not bring anything to debate.

Fact is it is far more early to know the fate of Wii, because noone expected such a trend.

 

[tongue_of_colicab]

My reply to Capeta went MIA?

 

[Capeta]

My reply to Capeta went MIA?

I think the mod deleted it since my reply to yours was deleted too.

Hint: Stay on topic...

 

[StefanS]

My reply to Capeta went MIA?

Actually, I've deleted a few replies, as it was spinning off topic to be honest.

 

[Nesh]

That has nothing to do with my personal like or dislike of a machine and its game library. Further, the demographic is defined by the product it buys. Since Wii sales are greater than zero, there certainly is a demographic that buys Wii. And they almost certainly have reasons for buying the machine. That the reasons for buying Wii differ from the reasons for buying a 360 or PS3 should be sufficiently obvious from the near-complete dissimilarity of the machines.

Yes, it does. Nintendo's patents prohibt the group of consumers who do not buy their products from enjoying their inventions. In fact, they even prohibit consumers from enjoying Nintendo's inventions if Nintendo chooses not to manufacture them. From your own mouth:

No, you really have no rights whatsoever regarding Nintendo's controller. Nintendo could refuse to manufacture it entirely, or they could choose to license only Pong clones for their system. That's how patent law works.

That's because you don't understand what analogies are. As with every analogy, there are similarities and dissimilarities. In this case, a Civic Hybrid lacks a number of features that SUV enthusiasts require from their vehicles (horsepower, cargo space) and for that reason does not appeal to those people. However, that does not make it a failure, because it has other features that appeal very much to another group of people (mileage, handling, tax breaks). That's the similarity to a Wii vs a 360. If you actually disagree that Wii and 360 have different features that appeal to different folks for different reasons, I can't help you. But I assure you that they are indeed not the same.

By the way, did you know that the Chevy Aveo5 value model doesn't feature a CD player or air conditioning? That's because it has a feature called "low price" that some people would rather have than the previous two features.

Oh my. I hope I wont sound offensive but I cant take you seriously after this post

Especially this:

Yes, it does. Nintendo's patents prohibt the group of consumers who do not buy their products from enjoying their inventions. In fact, they even prohibit consumers from enjoying Nintendo's inventions if Nintendo chooses not to manufacture them. From your own mouth:

and this

No, you really have no rights whatsoever regarding Nintendo's controller. Nintendo could refuse to manufacture it entirely, or they could choose to license only Pong clones for their system. That's how patent law works.

I hope when a developer decides to make an advanced game for Wii or Capcom decides to make DMC on Wii they dont get sued by Nintendo for violating their ...."patent". Or take my Wii away from me when I ll finally get one and play a game that satisfies serious gamers

Get over the idea that all gamers have right on Wii, and its perfectly natural to demand more creativity from a product. There is nothing that supports your arguement other than your opinion