Dual layer DVD-R and DVD+R

[pcchen]

Pioneer announced a new dual layer DVD-R format. They are going to propose their new format to DVD-Forum. Meanwhile, Philips and Mitsubishi Chemical Media also announced a new dual layer DVD+R format. They will demostrate it in the upcoming CEATEC JAPAN 2003.

Both claim their formats will be compatible to existing DVD players. Also, both formats support 8.5GB size. The timing is interesting (they announced these new formats on the same day).

Pioneer didn't talk about whether the new format will be available. However, Philips estimates that the new format will be standardized this year and dual layer DVD+R drives for PC will be available in 2004.

Pioneer Press Release
Philips News

 

[Joe DeFuria]

Wow...I was not expecting this at all.

So it will then be possible to actually make a "bit for bit" copy of a full length dual-layer DVD. Not to mention the longer recording time compared to current DVDs recorders which is desparately needed.

Though, I'm hoping that the -R proposal just goes away. The DVD+R format is superior from what I can tell, and appears to gaining traction over -r/-rw in the marketplace. No need to continue with both standards IMO.

 

[pcchen]

Although a single standard is good, but it won't happen. DVD-R is the official standard of DVD-Forum, and they are not going to abandon it.

I records F1 racing and burns them into DVD. The length including qualifying and racing normally goes to four hours or more. To put them into a single DVD forces me to use the lowest quality (352x480 @ 1.8Mbps to 2Mbps). If I have a dual layer DVD burner I'll be able to use 720x480 @ about 4Mbps, which is pretty "normal" quality.

Of course, I think the movie industry won't like this idea of dual layer DVD+/-R.

 

[Joe DeFuria]

Although a single standard is good, but it won't happen. DVD-R is the official standard of DVD-Forum, and they are not going to abandon it.

You're probably right, but here's to hoping.

Of course, I think the movie industry won't like this idea of dual layer DVD+/-R.

Not as long as there's people like Natoma around.

Anyway, this is all a year too late for me. I will be getting a DVD +-RW drive when I build my next rig, which is whenever HL2 ships. I was thinking about getting a set-top burner at about the same time...but I might now hold off on that to see if the +9R boxes actually start to hit the market in '04 or not.

 

[Natoma]

Not like me at all. I don't like physical media for CDs which is why I burned all my CDs to mp3s and tote them around on my IPOD. I like my physical media for DVDs.

 

[Natoma]

Although a single standard is good, but it won't happen. DVD-R is the official standard of DVD-Forum, and they are not going to abandon it.

I records F1 racing and burns them into DVD. The length including qualifying and racing normally goes to four hours or more. To put them into a single DVD forces me to use the lowest quality (352x480 @ 1.8Mbps to 2Mbps). If I have a dual layer DVD burner I'll be able to use 720x480 @ about 4Mbps, which is pretty "normal" quality.

Of course, I think the movie industry won't like this idea of dual layer DVD+/-R.

Praise be to Superbit.

Now all we need is cheap DVD players that read dual layer discs without flipping and we'll be set.

 

[Accord1999]

Now all we need is cheap DVD players that read dual layer discs without flipping and we'll be set.

I think you mean double-sided discs with respect to flipping.

 

[Natoma]

Now all we need is cheap DVD players that read dual layer discs without flipping and we'll be set.

I think you mean double-sided discs with respect to flipping.

Yea double sided.

 

[Joe DeFuria]

Not like me at all. I don't like physical media for CDs which is why I burned all my CDs to mp3s and tote them around on my IPOD. I like my physical media for DVDs.

Of course, by "pepople like you", I meant anyone who isn't satisfied with the product / service being offered for the price (for whatever reason), and pirates in retaliation. Not that you have an issue with DVDs themselves.

 

[Natoma]

Not like me at all. I don't like physical media for CDs which is why I burned all my CDs to mp3s and tote them around on my IPOD. I like my physical media for DVDs.

Of course, by "pepople like you", I meant anyone who isn't satisfied with the product / service being offered for the price (for whatever reason), and pirates in retaliation. Not that you have an issue with DVDs themselves.

Thank you for clearing that up. I don't like being mislabeled.

Btw, what's a pepople?

 

[Nappe1]

with my nowadays economical situation, I'll be waiting for something better that doesn't have such license feeds that DVD discs and/ort players have. BluRay (if I recal right, it is actually spelled like this. maybe 'e' is missing because it is actually purple laser...) is coming and so far looks like to be having pretty much same sort of licensing as CDs have. Yeah, I know it is far a way (means consumer applications 2005-2006) but so far I have been able to survive with CD standard discs (CD-ROM, CD-DA, CD-R, CD-RW, VCD, SVCD and PHOTOCD.) and just can't afford anything right now.

 

[Joe DeFuria]

The only problem with Blu-Ray, is the incompatibility with standard DVD players. I won't be able to record movies of my kids on blu-ray and give them to my parents...in fact, my wife's parents have yet to do away with their VHS.

If I were only interested in recording and play-back in my own machine, I may have wited for blu-ray as well.

 

[Nappe1]

The only problem with Blu-Ray, is the incompatibility with standard DVD players. I won't be able to record movies of my kids on blu-ray and give them to my parents...in fact, my wife's parents have yet to do away with their VHS.

If I were only interested in recording and play-back in my own machine, I may have wited for blu-ray as well.

well, we will see if BluRay recorders and stand alone players will be available. (for digital TV recording it seems a bit cheaper to make than dual layer DVD+-R... BluRay is single layer and takes ~18GB per side, which is double to dual layer DVD+-R.)

but all this depends much about Hollywood and movie companies. (though original VCD was almost non-existant in europe, in far east it actually sold pretty well. It didn't had much copy protection and it seemed not to be a problem. as well as good old VHS had practically nothing. (if we don't count VHS Macrovision, that really wasn't very effective.)

 

[Sxotty]

...in fact, my wife's parents have yet to do away with their VHS.

I have yet to do away with my VHs.... as I use my computer for DVD playing I have never bought a real dvd player oh well, I am behind the times, but 8xDVD burning seems fast, and if the dual layer discs are able to go faster yet as the tri-layer CD's that never came to fruition then I will be sold.

 

[Natoma]

We're thinking about getting a TiVo. Anyone have experience with them? Since we're talking about VCR replacements that is.

 

[Joe DeFuria]

We're thinking about getting a TiVo. Anyone have experience with them? Since we're talking about VCR replacements that is.

The thing that has really stopped me from doing TiVo, is the fact that I have digital cable. Having to tune using my cable box mosty defeats the purpose of TiVo.

The good news is, that digital tuners are being standardized, so it hopefully won't be too long until stand-alone boxes for digital cable can be done away with, as they'll be integrated into DVRs, recordable DVDs, TVs, etc.

The bad news is...who knows how long this will be before it's a reality.

 

[BRiT]

I only have analog-cable, but I really grok my ReplayTV unit. Its wonderful to be able to watch the shows you want to watch when you want to watch them. It's also nice to be able to pull the shows off to my computer for further archiving with the help of DVArchive. Although with a 160G drive in the ReplayTV, I only need to archive shows I truely want to keep around for a long time. It was one of the best $280+$80 I ever spent (ReplayTV 5040 with lifetime activation and 160G HD).

As for the tuning with Digital-Cable, they do have a remote-ir pod that you place near the cable-tuner reciever. This will do the channel changing for you. Although if you want to channel surf, its easier to do so straight and not via the Tivo/ReplayTV. To be honest, I hardly ever channel-surf anymore. I'm watching pre-recorded shows or using the built-in channel guide to see what's on before flipping the channel.

I wish they had dual-layer DVD-R out last year. I'm still surprised both camps are moving ahead with additional storage.

As to which standard is the one, from my own tests I've had better luck in compatibility with DVD-R than DVD+R.

 

[THe_KELRaTH]

With x16 DVD writers on their way too, (Dec), lets hope that Sharps IC lands in Philips dual layer recorders - make for a an ideal package.