Doom 3 observations

[alexsok]

Actually, it really is. Look past the textures and bump mapping, Doom3's models are extremely low poly.

Well, I haven't really examined the models in both games from an extreme closeup, so I can't really say... but from what I've witnessed from both games, i like the DOOM III models better (maybe it's the bumpmaps, maybe it's the art direction) and the polycounts seem higher to me (unless i turn on the wireframe mode... then i clearly see they aren't )

Bottom line:
Suppose UT2K3 models are higher in polys, that doesn't really change the situation, as I (and many other people like me) would still consider the models in D3 better looking. After all, polycounts don't matter at all, it's all together, polycounts, art direction, etc... and from these aspects, D3 is a clear winner for me. Just my 2 cents...

 

[BenSkywalker]

Suppose UT2K3 models are higher in polys, that doesn't really change the situation, as I (and many other people like me) would still consider the models in D3 better looking.

Better looking is another matter entirely and largely subjective. Carmack and crew are doing a great job covering it up, but simply look at the screenshots on the previous page and pay attention to the elbows and shoulders.

I haven't seen enough of D3 to give a honest stance one way or the other on which way my tastes lean.

 

[alexsok]

Better looking is another matter entirely and largely subjective.

Couldn't agree with you more there.

Carmack and crew are doing a great job covering it up, but simply look at the screenshots on the previous page and pay attention to the elbows and shoulders.

As I said, I haven't really examined the models from an extreme close up in-game and it's largely unnoticable while in motion.

As I said in my previous post, in wireframe, it's clearly obvious that the polycounts are nothing special and are as a matter of fact been suprassed by many titles out there, but the overall look of the models is so much better than everything else out there (except maybe Halo II), which is what id are relying on.

If we look at the screenshots provided by Activision and the people here, it's obvious that the polycounts are pretty low (a good example, as u said, are the elbows and shoulders).

Although my original point still stands, none of this is very obvious while in motion which is also the case with UT2K3.

Do you have any side by side comparisons between the models in D3 & UT2K3? I'd like to see an extreme closeup of a model from UT2K3, side by side with a D3 model...

 

[Goldni]

Well since you're on the subject of detailed high poly models, I think RE and RE0 have everybody beat. I've never seen sucj detailed beautiful models. I know RE0 is prerendered but as far as eye candy you just can't beat these. I'm figuring around 25,000 polys for each. Looks like some skinning on them and the 'mesh' looking clothes.

That first shot is old. The jaggies have been cleaned up considerably in the newer shots.

There are some close up shots of the faces and upper torso..but I can't find them now. Nonetheless RE0 looks incredible.

 

[V3]

I think Depend on which model, Doom 3 seems to have higher poly count than Quake 3, so its not extremely low polygon but low anyway.

Also, I found the shadow just looks odd, so I turn it off when playing it, it looks better without the shadow. I hope the fix/improve the shadow before its out.

Also I noticed if you play it in low res, r_mode 1, you can't really notice the low poly of the model, without really examining it. I mean if those zombie are attacking you won't notice they are low poly.

My only gripe is the shadow. The shadow do add to the atmosphere and gameplay, but it just don't look right at the moment. Hope they fix it, and add options for soft shadow as well.

 

[alexsok]

and add options for soft shadow as well.

That's not as easy as simply "adding" the option for soft shadows.
I really doubt we'll see soft shadows until after the DOOM III engine (when Carmack creates his next engine after D3, targeted at R300/NV30 hardware).

 

[DeathKnight]

And this is exactly why Carmack proclaimed that DOOMIII's technology is built entirely around the capabilities of the original GeForce256. The latest and greatest hardware only affords you higher resolutions and faster framerates.

 

[marconelly!]

That's not as easy as simply "adding" the option for soft shadows.
I really doubt we'll see soft shadows until after the DOOM III engine (when Carmack creates his next engine after D3, targeted at R300/NV30 hardware).

Silent Hill 3 has volumetric stencil shadows just like Doom 3, and they are softened. Fafalada knows how they've done that and is using the same trick in his game

 

[alexsok]

Silent Hill 3 has volumetric stencil shadows just like Doom 3, and they are softened. Fafalada knows how they've done that and is using the same trick in his game

Well then, I never said people haven't suprassed Carmack by now!

 

[mech]

Can I ask this please: I keep hearing that it's impossible for Carmack to add support for tru-form and stuff cos it would mess with the shadows. I don't get it. Why?

Most games have the shadows with lower polys than the characters. What am I missing?

 

[DeathKnight]

I believe it's the normal maps for the character models that will suffer if the models' polycounts are increased. The normal maps are derived from extremely high-poly models and are then optimzed for the lower-poly models.

 

[V3]

It has to do with the shadow and truform.

 

[alexsok]

http://www.beyond3d.com/interviews/carmackdoom3/

TruForm is not an option, because the calculated shadow silhouettes would no longer be correct.

Could people stop asking the same question over and over again?
I'm tired of quoting the same line from the interview all the time!

 

[Ozymandis]

Godlni, I agree about RE's character models being basically untouchable. Aren't the main character models like 20,000 polys apiece or something?

 

[Gollum]

Godlni, I agree about RE's character models being basically untouchable. Aren't the main character models like 20,000 polys apiece or something?

What about the character models in the upcoming DoA:XBV? They don't wear as much cloth on their bodies as those RE characters, but that makes it all the more a shame that they're literally untouchable...

 

[mech]

http://www.beyond3d.com/interviews/carmackdoom3/

TruForm is not an option, because the calculated shadow silhouettes would no longer be correct.

Could people stop asking the same question over and over again?
I'm tired of quoting the same line from the interview all the time!

*sigh*

I know, I've read that line, that's why I asked what I did I don't understand what he means by that.

Calculated shadow silhouettes?

 

[cybamerc]

Think of it this way. The shadows in Doom 3 are polygon shells that are placed on top of the models. For it to look good they have to be a perfect match. If you start adding polygons to the models but not the shadow volumes there will be a mismatch. You can illustrate it yourself by drawing a polygon on a piece of paper. Then on top of that one you draw a second one with an extra side added. They will no longer match no matter how you twist and turn them.

 

[jvd]

as stated RE1 for the game cube and RE0 for the game cube are very very nice looking but they are also prerendered. Silent Hill 3 aren't the backrounds on this also prerendered ? If doom 3 used prerendered backrounds the quality over RE0 would be crazy. I don't even want to try and think about it.

 

[alexsok]

Silent Hill 3 aren't the backrounds on this also prerendered ?

Nope, SH3's background are not prerendered, all real time...

 

[mech]

Think of it this way. The shadows in Doom 3 are polygon shells that are placed on top of the models. For it to look good they have to be a perfect match. If you start adding polygons to the models but not the shadow volumes there will be a mismatch. You can illustrate it yourself by drawing a polygon on a piece of paper. Then on top of that one you draw a second one with an extra side added. They will no longer match no matter how you twist and turn them.

So is this meant to be a self-shadowing issue then?