This is truly damned if you do, damned if you don't boiled down into a nutshell. DOOM of Duty killed because it wasn't enough like a game from 22 years ago, then people will bitch and whine that the game hasn't moved forwards gameplay-wise in 22 years... We've already seen that happen since the E3 unveil...!
Doom [2016]
- Thread starter DieH@rd
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Doom is perfect imo. Fantastic in every way. No storyline, just pure gameplay. I'm not saying all games should be like this, but it's nice to be able to get in and just focus on a gameplay loop that gets more challenging over and over again (in a fps)
That´s a very gory type of happy-go-lucky. I remember playing this game as a kid, and admitedly, to me I had more of a Doom 3 vibe than a Doom 2015. It was legitimately scary. I didn´t play like a run and gun, because I was constatly shitting my pants hearing the groans from monsters somewhere I did´t know exacly where.
But i still like the direction of this one as well. But if I were to make a Doom game that feels old-school Doomey, I´d go much further. I´d really embrace the weirdness and retro-ness and the "I´m an american neardy programer from the 90´s who likes comic books, science fiction and heavy metal who is randomly mashing all this things together into a game" That was the character of the game. It´s been long enough ago for that type of celebration to make sence, and not just feel like being out of fashion, but actually more like understanding the culture and the quirks of a period of time. I´d have hybrid synth/instrumental based heavy metal soundtrack, as a modern nod to the originals midi songs. Synths can enhance te feeling of horror and stress in some ways. I´d have the screen flash when you get the collectibles scatered around the levels. I´d mix the high-tech space-station architecture they´ve got going, with some less plausible parts with this minimalist gothic cathedral type buildings with huge concrete walls and wide spaces, again, as a celebration of the original gameplay-centric level design, that didn´t care much about making the places feel like they had any other function beyond being a game level. I like the excutions, but they could be more refined. They could craft the animations in a way that they gave you the flexibility to still alow player to move and look around while they go on. Sure they look cool, and you wanna have the player see them in all their glory, but jeez, if the player really wants to stop and watch them play out, they will do that by themselves. In a full 8-12 hours game, you won´t want to re-watch them every single time anyways. Haven´t people still not learned that after half-life one?!
Have weird gamey power ups around levels, have a score board at level ends. Modernize where it makes sence, but don´t shy away from stuff that was legitimately cool. We´ve alredy made tons of cinematic and plausible looking games, we have room for weird arcade games again.
But I´m a sucker for kitch, so, that´s just me, I don´t know how marketable you could make such weird game. It would be hard to make something like this, and still make it no look cheap. I think it is doable, but still, hard.
The E3 video I saw looked pretty good. I think there is enough of a market for a straight up mayhem shooter, as long as it's not frustratingly difficult and doesn't take itself too seriously. Looks like they might have some new people working on the game. I never really cared for id's game designer (Tim Willis?). Hopefully he's out of the picture.
Billy Idol
Legend
Sorry if posted before. This was posted this on neogaf
http://imgur.com/a/vZbOM
filtered vs unfiltered
http://i.imgur.com/9TAtZs8.png
http://i.imgur.com/3jDfbFI.png
http://i.imgur.com/G3Ktzz4.png
http://i.imgur.com/Vc6HgPQ.png
Huge difference....In terms of ambience. I didn't like the " greenish/ yellwish "greyish filter of the trailer.
http://imgur.com/a/vZbOM
filtered vs unfiltered
http://i.imgur.com/9TAtZs8.png
http://i.imgur.com/3jDfbFI.png
http://i.imgur.com/G3Ktzz4.png
http://i.imgur.com/Vc6HgPQ.png
Huge difference....In terms of ambience. I didn't like the " greenish/ yellwish "greyish filter of the trailer.
Thing is... Doom is the master, the father of them all, it doesn't need to copy authentic boring games, it has always had its own personality, it is the games like CoD that could learn from it instead of the other way around.
I played Doom on the Xbox 360 and the gameplay seemed to me as timeless as ever. I mean the rooms with large spaces, the rooms with contained spaces and tight paths and platforms in the sides and pools of acid in the middle, then a platform emerged from the wall in front of you and a couple of doors open and there are demons there...
It was so imaginative and unique, it never gets boring. In fact, the more realistic games like Half Life series, CoD, BF4, etc etc, never managed to capture that fun feeling. It's just mindless killing, shoot, escape, recharge, shoot humans, escape, recharge, rinse and repeat.
Doom seemed certainly a world made by demons, filled with imaginative tricks and unexpected situations, and demons are not humans, it's more fun.
That kind of gameplay doesn't need to evolve, because it's based on imagination, it's the others that became stagnant, imo.
As a ranter myself, I respect yours, however, lots of people would beg to differ with your conclusion. They would say "the master" is no longer just that when there's literally a hundred or more copycats out there, some of them arguably doing what DOOM did better than DOOM, and with additional features and gameplay to boost. They would say new 2006 DOOM with the same gameplay as 1993 DOOM would be an emperor with no pants - at best.
I'm half tempted to agree with them. To me, a good game needs story and lore. If I don't get that then nothing else really matters one bit. DOOM had none of that (other than a single screen of text whenever you cleared an act), but when the game came out it was a unique experience. One of a kind. The storyless mow-down-anything-that-moves gameplay felt stale to me already back when Quake launched, and as a consequence I could never really get into that game. I played through the original, it felt really meh, and I also never looked at the expansions either.
Quake 2 was better, because it had a storyline (albeit a simple one), which you could follow with the mission updates you received throughout the levels. DOOM 3 was better still in my view, with the emails, audio clips and occational NPC you encountered while playing, and so on.
I don't think regressing back to a state before all those things would be at all beneficial to gameplay, so I hope there's a story too included in the game. If there isn't it would be fucking disgraceful, considering how much god damn time and money has been spent making this game.
Well we saw what happend to Duke Nukem Forever. Intentionally old school gameplay didnt fair well with today's standards. It could have been one of the best games ever made if it was released back when it was intended to. So I think its good for Doom to be updated by today's expectations. Although sometimes that involves its own risks. The developer should be very talented and creative in order to maintain or add the right elements that will make the sequel relevant to the franchise. Otherwise it may feel too alienated.
deathindustrial
Regular
Using "Duke Nukem Forever" isn't fair. It wasn't old school gameplay that made that a steaming pile of crap, it was development hell and poor management. Doom doesn't need any story beyond a cult genre film 1 page summary that reads like a sci-fi horror take on Slayer lyrics. Expecting story from Doom is like expecting deep story from a SMB iteration.
What it does need is atmosphere, the feeling of discovery through exploration and frantic action based around the principles that made the first game great. It should be borrowing from Borderlands structurally and gameplay-wise, and staying far away from anything Doom III IMHO.
What it does need is atmosphere, the feeling of discovery through exploration and frantic action based around the principles that made the first game great. It should be borrowing from Borderlands structurally and gameplay-wise, and staying far away from anything Doom III IMHO.
People expect more than that today. It's not possible to re-capture the original DOOM gameplay flavor because it isn't fucking 1993 anymore. Gamers - AND games - have progressed from that point, and trying to go back there is just going to be utter fail.
Also, "old school shooter gameplay" worked pretty damn well in Rage. The extra ammo types and resource management were nice additions on top; I wonder if Doom is going to attempt anything like that.
Oh and of course the 'favor' can be re-captured, it just doesn't mean that it should be a simple port of the old mechanics. After all aiming in Doom was completely 2D with automatic height adjustment, and most of us still played it with keyboard only, after getting used to it in Wolfenstein.
What most people mean with old school and favor and such is more about the general cadence and such - there's no recharging health or shields, no limits on the number of weapons you can carry, and no cover mechanics; and the enemies are aggressive, take no cover either, and so on.
Oh and of course the 'favor' can be re-captured, it just doesn't mean that it should be a simple port of the old mechanics. After all aiming in Doom was completely 2D with automatic height adjustment, and most of us still played it with keyboard only, after getting used to it in Wolfenstein.
What most people mean with old school and favor and such is more about the general cadence and such - there's no recharging health or shields, no limits on the number of weapons you can carry, and no cover mechanics; and the enemies are aggressive, take no cover either, and so on.
Was just wondering about weapon upgrades. Breaks the monotony over the course of a game, even if it's simplified ala Dead Space.
e.g. guided rockets, laser beam, moar ammo, bigger boot, rate of fire, incendiary/freeze/explosive tip ammo, etc. different plasma colours for different damage upgrades.
standard BFG = original
upgraded BFG = original + laser beams (ala QII).
and so on.
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Billy Idol
Legend
Key for me is 'satisfying' gunplay. Most modern shooters fail. KZ2 had it. BL1&2 as well and Rage and Metro games.
Not much else I can remember...hopefully Doom!
Not much else I can remember...hopefully Doom!
deathindustrial
Regular
Of course you can otherwise Borderlands wouldn't have worked so well. In BL the way enemies behave, the level design approach (mix of open and cramped spaces plus secrets) , health and ammo collection and general pacing is very similar to the original Doom. Replace the comedic goofiness with some high school metalhead trappings and you are 90% of the way there.
First off, Rage had a story, with missions, and NPCs, vendors, crafting and cover gameplay - if you just rushed enemies guns blazing like you typically do in DOOM, you'd quickly run out of life, ammo or both. Gunfighting did feel great in Rage tho, but I wouldn't exactly call it oldschool.
Borderlands isn't oldschool DOOM gameplay either. You typically only encounter a handful of badguys at a time (5-6 or so IME), and not a dozen or even dozens. Enemies also bob and weave, they don't just charge straight at you all the time. You level up, do quests, upgrade gear, there's different classes, sniper scope... Nothing like DOOM's gameplay, other than you have guns, and things to shoot.
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