I guess we should all be good little boys and girls and have beliefs exactly like yours, wouldnt tha be a fun world. 
later,
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- Thread starter Natoma
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epicstruggle said:I guess we should all be good little boys and girls and have beliefs exactly like yours, wouldnt tha be a fun world.
later,
Hey you can have all the beliefs you like, just don't try to destroy my life or the life of my partner with those beliefs.
That's when you'll get trouble from me. You don't see me going to a KKK rally or a Reverend Phelps rally to start trouble. In fact I support their right to speak as they wish.
But they try and start something that will negatively impact my life and my partner's life and you can bet I'll come out swinging. Hey. It's the american way!
hmm, i dont see how im destroying you or your partner. I have issues with allowing same sex couples getting married. Getting married is not a fundamental right. Thats why I think you and the gay/lesbian community should be fighting for civil unions.
Listen there are intolerant people in this world. The world isnt fair, I dont know who told you it was, but they were lying. Maybe you feel that youve been targetted, but come on everyone has at some point or other been targetted. Im not sure but to me it seems that you you have issues with people who dont do what you want. I try to roll with the punches, sometimes life deals you a bad hand. Wait for the next deal.
later,
Listen there are intolerant people in this world. The world isnt fair, I dont know who told you it was, but they were lying. Maybe you feel that youve been targetted, but come on everyone has at some point or other been targetted. Im not sure but to me it seems that you you have issues with people who dont do what you want. I try to roll with the punches, sometimes life deals you a bad hand. Wait for the next deal.
later,
epicstruggle said:hmm, i dont see how im destroying you or your partner. I have issues with allowing same sex couples getting married. Getting married is not a fundamental right. Thats why I think you and the gay/lesbian community should be fighting for civil unions.
Listen there are intolerant people in this world. The world isnt fair, I dont know who told you it was, but they were lying. Maybe you feel that youve been targetted, but come on everyone has at some point or other been targetted. Im not sure but to me it seems that you you have issues with people who dont do what you want. I try to roll with the punches, sometimes life deals you a bad hand. Wait for the next deal.
later,
If marriage is something that is supported by the US Government and rights are conferred upon marriage, then it is something that is regulated by the government. Because my relationship is not illegal in this country, I should be able to participate fully in marriage.
Religion and Religious beliefs do not legislation in this country make. We have a little revolutionary thing called Separation of Church and State.
for gods sake . Maybe you should start a petition removing the rights confered to married couples. Fight for that instead.
later,
. Maybe you should start a petition removing the rights confered to married couples. Fight for that instead.later,
Sabastian said:
Hey the christian religion also teaches that if you commit adultery you should be stoned to death. It teaches that if your child sins against you, you should stone him or her to death. It teaches that if you eat pork you have committed an abomination against God.
I suppose Christians want the government to change its legal code in order to support the christian faith.
p.s.: No, I don't care what your moral convictions are wrt the laws of this nation. You can have whatever moral convictions you like. But Marriage is a federally regulated construct because federal rights and privileges are conferred upon the married. Baptism is a religious construct because the government has nothing to do with it.
Because it is a federally regulated construct, and my relationship is not illegal in this country, I should be able to enter into marriage with my partner and receive the benefits and privileges associated with that federally regulated construct.
epicstruggle said:for gods sake
later,
Don't want that. I and millions of other homosexuals want to participate in the federally regulated marriage construct. We don't want to be excluded merely because some religious anti-gays think we're going to hijack something that isn't even regulated by any one religion in particular in this country.
But oh, it most certainly was regulated by one particular religion in your home country wasn't it epic?
Natoma said:
These things would be covered by a civil union but that is not good enough is it? You want to have Christians recognize your civil union as a marriage.
EDIT: That would also include any other religion that opposes homosexual marriages including Muslims, Islam etc.
Sabastian said:
See, you're missing a crucial point here. I could care less what christians think.
Marriage is not a christian construct. Marriage exists in Christianity. It exists in Hinduism. It exists in Islam. It exists outside of religion all together (see people who get married by judges at city hall, which has absolutely no religious overtones to it).
But it is most certainly, in this country (which is what I care about most), a federally regulated construct. Because of separation of church and state, the christians have no right legislating their religious beliefs into law. In fact it is illegal to do so.
Jeebus bless america.
Sabastian said:
Not at all. Christians can continue to teach whatever it is they wish at home. Christians can continue to teach that gay sex is 'icky' and 'nasty' and against the law (god's law of course). But as long as the government of the United States doesn't agree, I'm fine and dandy.
But go ahead. Preach on brutha man. Christians can enjoy their moral convictions all they wish. Just thank the founding fathers of this nation when they setup the separation of church and state, in order to keep one dominant religion from oppressing minorities that do not necessarily share their views.
That's one of the reasons why this country, as flawed as it is, is so great.
Natoma said:
They ought to be able to do that in their church as well. Along with all the other religions/cultures as well. Marriage is a religious cultural institution that is exclusively arranged for man and woman with the presupposition of a procreational natural family unit by the whole of humanity.
natoma you keep making inaccurate claims.
Christianity isnt what caused discrimination in South Africa, it was evil men and women who wanted power for whites, and not blacks. Before you claim all whites in SA are racists, i should tell you that many whites were against apartheid, but did not have the support/number to change the system.
Second, christians arent the only people against having same sex marriages. Basically every religion, + most republicans. I would estimate that about 45-60% of people in america are against same sex marriages, with about 5-10% who really dont care one way or another. And the rest for it.
Ill eat a shoe shapped cake if same sex marriages ever get created and pass muster with the supreme court.
later,
Christianity isnt what caused discrimination in South Africa, it was evil men and women who wanted power for whites, and not blacks. Before you claim all whites in SA are racists, i should tell you that many whites were against apartheid, but did not have the support/number to change the system.
Second, christians arent the only people against having same sex marriages. Basically every religion, + most republicans. I would estimate that about 45-60% of people in america are against same sex marriages, with about 5-10% who really dont care one way or another. And the rest for it.
Ill eat a shoe shapped cake if same sex marriages ever get created and pass muster with the supreme court.
later,
Sabastian said:
Once the government began regulating Marriage, it became a federal cultural institution. Why? Because a Hindu Marriage is recognized as equal with a Christian Marriage and a Muslim Marriage and a Zen Buddhism Marriage, etc etc etc.
You want to have your religious marriage, fine. Me and my partner will have our federal marriage with no religious strings attached. My relationship isn't illegal in this country, so there is no legal, non-religious reason to ban me and mine from getting married within the federally regulated construct of marriage. Sure some religions won't recognize my marriage, but I'm not a religious person, so I couldn't give a damn. Those that are religious, however, will be dealing with a whole other set of circumstances.
You just don't seem to get it that religion and government are separate in the USA. I don't know what the story in Canada is, but that's the way it is here.
epicstruggle said:natoma you keep making inaccurate claims.
Christianity isnt what caused discrimination in South Africa, it was evil men and women who wanted power for whites, and not blacks. Before you claim all whites in SA are racists, i should tell you that many whites were against apartheid, but did not have the support/number to change the system.
Second, christians arent the only people against having same sex marriages. Basically every religion, + most republicans. I would estimate that about 45-60% of people in america are against same sex marriages, with about 5-10% who really dont care one way or another. And the rest for it.
Ill eat a shoe shapped cake if same sex marriages ever get created and pass muster with the supreme court.
later,
Is it or is it not Christian Men who created the laws stating that only Christian marriages would be recognized in your country Epicstruggle? I mean, I seriously doubt the hindus in South Africa would create such a law excluding themselves from marriage.
Again, as I said, the argument against same sex marriage from a religious standpoint will absolutely not pass muster with the supreme court of this nation. And frankly, that's all anti-gay religious types and republicans (and some damn democrats) have got. "My religion doesn't support this. That's why it's evil and should not be allowed!! One man and one woman!!!"
Btw, I never said all white people are evil, nor would I make such an assertion. The same thing goes for religions, republicans, and some of those damn democrats.
maybe what should happen is that govermnent should just get out of the marriage business. Let people get married to whoever/whatever they want to get married to, and to as many he/she/its as they want. Let the things like inheritance, health/social/economical benefits be things you state who you want to share with on a form.
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those evil people just happened to be christians. So i would assume that is why they wanted only christian weddings.
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