Dissatisfied? Warning:Long

Silenti

Regular
I have been reviewing all my 360 purchases and have come to a somewhat sad conclusion as a whole. I no longer feel as if games are being finished or properly tested, and in at least one case I don't feel the developer's best efforts were put forth. (To be clear, I am not so much blaming developers here as to wondering where the problem lies. It may well be a number of factors coming together.) I don't care for reviewing my games very early in their life as a general rule. I prefer wait to see how they play out over time, what I come back to, etc. I'll break that a little bit here due to how shallow some of the games have proven to be, but there is a theme of unfinished, unpolished, failure to correct problems and gaping holes in all these games that makes me wonder where the problem lies.
These are problems I had initially looked past, but now am beginning to seriously reconsider my purchasing choices. I do not play competitive vs. online and cancelled my Gold membership long ago since I never used it. I may no longer pay 60$, or even 50$, for my games anymore. The whole generation, on reflection, is becoming more and more a disappointment for me. The following are specific problems for the games I own and it is somewhat lengthy, feel free to skip to the bottom paragraph where the questions lie.

GRAW1 - The game was gorgeous when it came out, still is really. The disappointments? Length and the co-op quality. The game was just too damned short and I found this to be a recurring theme. The co-op was not even part of the single player campaign, was not developed by the same team as I understand it, and the visual quality took a serious hit. Such a serious hit that I thought something was going wrong on the hardware end. No cover system in co-op and the grenade throwing was different as well. Now, why can I not move squad members individually? What the hell is the point of that?

GRAW2 – Once again, LENGTH. Felt like the game had just gotten going when the rather silly ending came into play. Voice acting got even worse in this version, as did the story. Same problems with the co-op and grenades as the first. The lack of the cover system in co-op really annoyed myself and those who played with me as well. Nice mortars, why were they not put to better use? The air support options seemed even more contrived in this one than the first. Still no individual squad member movement. Fixes that should have been implemented the second time around and were not.

Gears of War – I don’t really care for the art style of this game, but it still had some great moments and some great imagery despite it not catering to my tastes. Loved the arcade style reload system, the sticky bow almost matches the plasma grenades for sheer joy, and the chain saw was most gratifying. The bad points? What the hell is up with the story-line? There are huge holes in this thing from the very beginning. It didn’t feel like they were holding back secrets to be revealed later, just more like they didn’t much bother with a story-line even though I believe they paid a well known outside writer to pen the script. How many enemies were there really? 4 not counting the couple of boss figures? Not exactly a great variation there and the weapon choices were even worse. The grenades were nearly useless and some of the weapon design just seemed stupid (The single shot sniper rifle reminded me of a Rainbow Six game I hated where your character’s first mission drops you into enemy territory with a single pistol and something like 20 rounds of ammunition.) It seems very unfinished in retrospect.

Oblivion – One of these days I will learn. I’ve owned 3 of the 4 in this series and they never fail to disappoint. Some of this is my fault in not caring for 1st person Fantasy RPG and the 3rd person view seems an afterthought. The graphics are rather horrendous, the load times barely tolerable and calling the gameplay and enemies repetitive would be a colossal understatement. It is technically long if you hit all the side quests, but they get quite repetitive. I may just have to stop buying these games entirely. I certainly will never pay 60$ for one again. Nor 50$, nor 40$. Hard to fit this into any of the above listed categories, but it still feels poorly finished and repetitive. Tip to the developer – hire more voice actors, it gets really annoying to run into the same voice from so many “different” NPC’s.

Viva Pinata – I have seen this “toy”, I refuse to call it a game, singled out for graphical prowess. Technically, that may be true. Visually it is rather unimpressive to me despite these statements. Even using web pages spelling out the details of attraction and getting them to stay, much of the play was difficult to figure out, or often just failed to work anyway. Some tasks were nearly impossible, or certainly not worth the time and effort. The helpers were either annoying, useless or a combination of both. The fences, of any grade, I found to be pointless since the animals always found a way through a solid fence without a gate, probably through some clip error when I was not looking. That or if there was a gate, the “helpers” would let the creatures out. The candy was nearly pointless as well, the “happy” either did not work or worked for so short a time period it was pointless and the “romance” candy never did work. Unpolished, at the least.

Forza 2 – Bought it and the racing wheel. First time in probably 15 years I have bought a racing game (going back to the 3DO days at least.) How do I put this? Far too few tracks, too few vehicles, and too few opponents. It’s like there is half of a good game here. Updates? What do you get? 1 obscure car per month or something to that effect? I really, really wanted to like this game, but the overall size needed to be doubled. (And that New York track was a travesty.) Unfinished, Length.

HALO3 – Where to begin. Giving the single-player campaign an 8 is probably too kind. Pop-in problems are back in style, the engine looks like an HD version of HALO2, many of the weapons were heavily altered from their old forms or the new ones had little to differentiate themselves utility wise from the old. The two new grenades? One is pointless (the spike) and the other is of limited use and a rare find for much of the game. I do like the equipment, but only a few of the items are actually very useful. Once again, as in 2, there is an utterly useless vehicle in the Brute chopper. The indoor graphics seem lacking and the outdoor suffers from some terrible pop-in and is still rather blocky looking. Once again, too short. Way too short. The one interesting point about playing the arbiter disappeared with the loss of his cloaking ability. The ending race was a poor copy of the first game and the parts which often made the first game so enjoyable, Cortana and her sense of humor and sarcasm, were missing until what? The next to last level? Bungie left something here. I seem to lack all the words to describe what is missing, but something critical is gone. Unpolished, Length, Failure to Fix previous problems (missing Cortana.)

Call of Duty 4 – How this game is getting the grades it has is completely beyond me. This isn’t just short, it feels like an extended demo. They actually used infinitely spawning enemies based on reaching geographical points on during the gun battles. Did they hire an ex-Id level designer or something? For such a beautiful game that finally abandoned WW2, it has been a terrible disappointment. What is it? 6 hours long? I literally feel cheated. Length.

Mass Effect – It used to be there were 3 developers I would trust without even really seeing a demo. Bioware, Bungie and Blizzard. Now it seems I may be reduced to 1, and that assumes a new Diablo is on the way. This has all the hallmarks of KOTOR 2 which Bioware did not even create if I remember correctly. The “morality” system? It affects nearly nothing in the game. At least in KOTOR it had real world consequences for your character’s abilities. Here it is nothing more than a few different side missions and some dialog tree changes. It also suffers from perhaps the worst inventory management system, and worst inventory choices, in recent memory. The high level ammunition upgrades are nearly useless. You are better off sticking with the mid-level tungsten, phasic, and anti-personnel rounds than any of the higher level (8+) choices. The “Mako” ground vehicle may be the worst I have ever driven in game. Exploring a planet with that thing is entertaining for about 5 minutes, after which it becomes annoying. Aiming the weapons is rather tricky as well since they certainly do not go where the reticle is barring your being on perfectly level ground. As in GRAW 1 and 2, you cannot move your squad mates individually, only as a group. They also have a tendency to get stuck behind doors if you move too quickly. Outside of the major missions, it’s all the same 2 or 3 stock buildings or ships. Many planets have no point to their existence, same with the quests. The “X” button you use to move quickly through dialog that you have heard before needs to NOT trigger a response. I have lost track of the number of times I have accidentally hit a dialog option I had no intention of using due to this flaw. Now, why no hdd caching? Just because it is possible someone has a 360 w/o a hdd (although the number are quite low) does not mean you do not use it if it is there. The damned optical drives are finicky enough without being hit this often. And, just as in KOTOR 2, there are obvious large sections missing entirely. I don’t mind the length, but at least remove references to missions which are non-existent. Unfinished, Unpolished, Failure to fix previous problems.

Assassin’s Creed – Let the platformer return. We built this visually stunning world with the best character animations I have ever seen. Then forgot to actually put anything in it. Outside of your 9 main assassination missions, there are what? 3 side quests (informers – with a couple of different variations, save the citizens, save the scholars, pickpocket, eavesdrop, beat the information out of him) of dubious value and a dozen of ZERO value beyond Achievement points. Having the ruffians help you or the scholars hide you is almost pointless anyway. You can easily beat any number of guards sent after you. The combat system is remarkably shallow. Remember the long tutorial (which, like the cutscenes, there is no way to skip) where you are taught to turn your head, which moves in a remarkable 360 degrees, it is almost pointless and difficult to use since it requires both the right thumbstick and the Y-button mounted on the top right of the controller. Where are the equipment choices as well? Something, anything! Abilities? Precious few once again. And little point to many of them, they are unnecessary. Length, Unfinished.

Madden 08 – And now my latest purchase. On-sale for 38$ at Target and I am giving money to EA for the first time in around 10 years. I haven’t played a football game in at least that long. I’ve played 2 games with the Oakland Raiders, average score about 90-7 me. I have played on rookie since it has been so long and I still do not know the controls. I am a little uncertain what to think at this point and am reserving judgement for a later date, but I would never have bought this game at 50 or 60$. Before or after playing it.


What is happening? Am I just remembering the gaming past as being better than it was? Are the fiscal pressures of the new architectures and art just too high? Is it not worth creating a custom engine for a game these days? Not worth the time for proper testing of major interactions? Is the EA method taking over? Are console games being dumbed down for more mass appeal? Is developer talent spread too thinly? I have not purchased the Orange Box or Bioshock because I no longer trust the situation. (Bioschok for the purported Length, Replay-ability, and the too shiny surfaces where water is in use and the Orange Box because I partially played Half-Life 2 already and it is the only game to ever make me physically ill to play and I failed to see what was so spectacular about the play or story.) I replayed games for years previously. I do not believe a single one of these games has ever been played more than a couple of months and those that were played that long was due to a lack of options rather than any special attributes on the games part. I am seriously going to be investigating a return to PC gaming if this continues, and for me to state that is something of a shocker for those who know me.
 
Whoah you sure are very dissapointed.

Heh you do have a point with some of your comments but unfortunately thats how things are nowadays. I feel that a huge number of so called "AAA titles" are highly overrated while others get lower scores than they deserve.

It seems like some games get great scores because of the hype, the developer behind it or the name of the game itself. I wont mention which games I personally feel are overrated (except from GRAW) because I know some will be offended, but I might mention names of games that deserved much more than some highly praised games.

Darkness for example I believe that deserved higher scores. The execution was amazing, visuals have an amazing attention to detail, and the gameplay was as good as any other fps shooter with some extra and very well done ideas. But Jesus it got lower scores than it desreved and it should have gotten much more than many highly praised games that are infested with issues.
 
*The Gears of War story was bare thin in the game. You get more story if you got the art book included in the collector's edition but you shoudn't have to buy that to get a well rounded story. The story should be in the game. Not in the art book, not in the strategy guide, not even in the manual, it should be in the game.
*Your criticism on Oblivion and its predecessors seems stupid. If you don't like them why do you keep buying them? You have no one to blame for not enjoying those games but yourself.
*I never seemed to have the problems you had with Viva Pinata.
*Assassin's Creed's gameplay is hollow, very repetitive(And before its few defenders says it no I didn't rush through the game). At least we got the experience of running around the interactive environments so we weren't stuck with a complete stinker.

Yikes what a thread, don't know how it's going to end up. Here are gripes of my own: Texture pop-in, lack of v-sync, people that are rendered like shiny plastic, too many FPS games(I miss the days when console gaming was almost completely Japanese flavored but Microsoft changed all that. :().
 
I stopped at too few vehicles in Forza Motorsport 2. :|

Skimmed the titles of other stuff you bought and saw you got Madden so I skimmed some more and was shocked that you decided that after playing 2 games on rookie it wasn't worth a full purchase... I cannot tell you what games you like, but I can tell you this: If you are going to give a game a fair shake, give it a fair shake. 2 games on easy isn't even trying IMO. The game is deep and robust. It is a fleshed out product with all sorts of singleplayer gameplay (from individual games to franchises to owner mode) as well as competitive/cooperative play. The controls are very refined with a significant amount of depth as well as learning curve. I don't care if you don't like football, or don't even think it was worth a purchase... but you have less than 2 hours into one of the deepest games on the market and are already dissappointed. I can understand it not being your cup of tea... but rushing to judgement 2 hours into a game where you have hardly even scratched the surface of gameplay mechanics and design is... wow.

It strikes me as if someone who went to play a game praised for great AI and played it on easy and within 2 hours concluded the AI was crap.

As for being let down... you don't see me with a console! I think there needs to be some compelling content at a proper price point. I think the content as a whole has arrived (something for everyone on at least one platform) so it is a matter of how much and at what price. That is up to individial budgets and gaming habits. I am pretty critical of games in general and have gone from the mentality of, "Own 30+ games, rent even more" per generation to "find 10-15 games I really like--find things that engage my interest--and stick with them". Basically you can find reasons to be dissappointed in *every game ever released on every platform, without exception* but that would be a fruitless excercise. It really comes down to preference/taste and outlook.

Is the cup 90% full or 10% empty?

Your post reads like someone finding the 10%-20% wrong with any game, even if non-critical to the game, and focusing on what the game doesn't do over and above what the game does do.
 
Well, a lot of that post is just wrong. For instance the candies not working in VP is completely wrong and it tells me that he just didn't actually spend any time trying to understand the game.
 
Yikes what a thread, don't know how it's going to end up. Here are gripes of my own: Texture pop-in, lack of v-sync, people that are rendered like shiny plastic, too many FPS games(I miss the days when console gaming was almost completely Japanese flavored but Microsoft changed all that. :().

If people buy them, they will make them.

As for blaming MS for FPS... did you own an N64? We had GoldenEye 007, Perfect Dark, Turok, Turok 2, Doom 64, Quake, Quake II, Duke Nuken 64, South Park, Forsake, Rainbow Six... heck, we even got a version of Daikatana! And then there were all the 3rd person games that were essentially shooters like JFG, Conker's, etc.

Blaming Microsoft is a really, really skewed view of the evolution of the industry. The N64 did moderately well in America and proved that general consumers would buy FPS. The reality is before the N64 consoles didn't have the performance to do a proper FPS. PCs didn't get proper FPS themselves until the early 1990s. The influx of PC technology has been a bigger factor. What was once a very Asia oriented source of technology the 90s saw North American companies like Intel, Nvidia, PowerVR, ATI, Rambus, SGI, and do forth hop into the console gaming world. This invariably allowed technologies formerly limited (for the most part) to the PC space to migrate over to the console space. This trend started long before Microsoft entered the equation in 2001 with the Xbox.

Over the last decade we have also seen the number of prominent developers and publishers grow in Europe. The continued globalization of the market has an impact on the market far outside any one company. Ultimately games are made that people buy, so if you want a certain game type to succeed you need to buy it... and get others to do the same.
 
The N64 did do moderately well but it was Sony that was on top back then. The only big N64 FPS games were Goldeneye, Perfect Dark, and the Turok series. I do believe we have Microsoft to thank for the greater western flavor in console gaming, they actually made it a point to embrace PC developers with a friendly environment bringing them into console gaming. But I will concede that the rise of the gaming industry and companies all over the world jumping in as a result played a big role too. It was probably inevitable with Microsoft only quickening it.

Edit: Ah, I forgot to put in Perfect Dark as another big FPS, it owed much of its success to being the spiritual successor to Goldeneye.
 
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Texture pop-in is inevitable, learn to live with it. Its alternatives are:

- overall lower texture resolution
- highly linear, on-rails games
- loading screens
- reliance on HDD

IMHO all of these are greater evils.
 
Texture pop-in is inevitable, learn to live with it. Its alternatives are:

- overall lower texture resolution
- highly linear, on-rails games
- loading screens
- reliance on HDD

IMHO all of these are greater evils.

Whats wrong with the last one?.
 
Only the worst selling platform on the market (and the one that sells the least software) guarantees it.

:LOL:

To the OP: It sounds like you are looking for the perfect game and that you will never find. I typically find that when people complain about game length or technical issues, they always have a few games they actually love that has everything their complaining about so that brings to question: Are you playing the wrong game? I can certainly go through an entire list of games and present my issues with them and claim that it is widespread throughout the industry and what should we do to fix it but seeing how there are games I love that are short, have technical issues, etc., I know they must have gotten something right for me to like it game-play wise. As far as tech, I understand there are trade-offs for what you are attempting to do. It goes with the territory.
 
I play games on hardest difficulty now and games are never short.

Agreed about NYC track on FM2, it shouldn't even exist! I hate to run on that track as part of achievements.
 
I'm also not sure what returning to the PC is going to net you, better graphics and then after that?

That. Also most MMOs, RTSs, Strategy games (although the first two are slowly moving toward the consoles as well), maybe a couple shooters, and some games off the beaten path.

The PC selection, at this point in time, is pretty pathetic IMO. And the sales figures clearly explain this. Even a game like Oblivion, that did well on the PC, was absolutely dwarfed by the console version in sales.

I love KB/MS and use my PC alot so the only "game" component is the GPU, so relatively it isn't as big of an investment for me as a console. And my favorite games are stuff like Battlefield which just hasn't had a proper release (or clone) on the consoles. But get out the water works if you want to play, say, the newest version of Madden. Kind of sad when the 2008 version took features out that were present in the 2007 version. Want a decent selection of top quality racing games that push the envelop in more than one area? You won't find that on the PC. There are entire genres of popular games just missing on the PC (hello, platformers, are you home?)

PC gaming is solid for certain genres and niches, but a lot of the "traditional" PC games are finding a cozier home on the console front. The OP has a number of shooters and western RPGs... interestingly the PC either lacks those titles or they are available on both (and are typically agreed to be some of the better titles on the PC as well). There are very few PC exclusive shooters or western RPGs that address the core complaints in the OP. And forget getting a title like AC or Forza on the PC. Maybe soon, but by the time the PC sees some love in ports or the PC competition catching up the consoles will already be on new titles in those genres.

Anyhow...

PC gaming gets me Battlefield 3. :cool:
 
I thought Crackdown and Saints row were pretty good games... maybe you could buy a Ps3 if you want to try some other exclusive titles...
 
*Your criticism on Oblivion and its predecessors seems stupid. If you don't like them why do you keep buying them? You have no one to blame for not enjoying those games but yourself.
*I never seemed to have the problems you had with Viva Pinata.

As I stated, it was pretty much my fault. I do think the repetitive enemies, where they just add a new skin color, is a valid gripe though.
 
Joshua Luna
I believe I stated that I was reserving judgment. I only included it here because I wanted to include all the games I have purchased for the 360 so far. No real judgment have been made about the game yet, as I also stated I am still figuring it out and playing it on rookie.

Dave: There were 4 of us playing the game for around 3 months. After initial failures we never went back to trying them again.

NavNuc: Fair enough that you do not like games to be long and hard with your listed exception of Mass Effect. I just feel like there is nothing anymore EXCEPT MMORPG that have the length and potentially the depth of play that I want.
 
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...But get out the water works if you want to play, say, the newest version of Madden. Kind of sad when the 2008 version took features out that were present in the 2007 version.

I want a proper PC release of the NHL franchise. Those bastards are forcing me to buy an xbox360 next fall, if the PC gets passed over again.
 
I've only really gotten into Mass Effect, of the list of games in the original post, and I agree 100% with all of the criticisms, and can throw in several more of my own. However, ME was still the most engrossing game I've played in years, and for that, all is forgiven. (But if they don't fix the inventory/loot system in the sequels, I will strangle someone.)
 
Just to make a few points here about what I was posting about. Yes, I was only listing the criticisms of the games in question. I wanted to keep the length down as it was already long just from the problems I saw with them. Hell, plenty was done right on many of those games. As to what I am comparing them to? I am comparing them to the games that I have come back to time and time again for years afterwards.

Goldeneye - I played that game for more than 2 years, multi and single. Used to be the place I lived in we had 4 people who came home from work around 6, we played every night for 6 months till around midnight.

Baldur's Gate (And some other prior D&D games or D&D style games) - Replayed the hell out of those games too. Same for Diablo 1 and 2. Countless hours and I will still go back and play Diablo 2 every once in awhile right now and that is without playing online. I don't even have the expansion pack.

As to entering the industry. I looked at it years ago. I am currently in law school. The problem with entering game development is I am neither an artist (in any form) and I gave up programming years ago because I hated it. If you are not a programmer or an artist then you pretty much have to forget it. I even looked at schools like Full Sail and still get literature from them.

NHL 94 - Once again, countless hours, really countless. Me and one friend, a Sega Genesis, and we played till we dropped nightly. Hell, I didn't even like Hockey till I played that game. (Kind of gave up on the RL game a few years back - but damn I used to love watching the Avalanche and the Red Wings go at it.)

Conquest of the New World (Bit obscure but I loved that game.) Master of Orion I and II, Master of Magic. I still pull out CotNW but there are problems trying to run the dual disk version in DOS Box, i.e. - you basically cannot.

Halo 1 and 2 - More 1 than 2, but both received so much playthrough (despite the Legendary Jackal snipers) on co-op and I still go back and play them these days. I doubt 3 will ever see that kind of replay value.

My lsting of only criticisms makes the list seem unfair, that was done for length. I'm just looking for the depth of play and replayabillity of the games that I have listed. Preferrably w/o going to a MMORPG. Those seem to require too much CONSTANT attention and I prefer and option to play as to a necessity when you are dealing with hundreds to thousands of other people's schedules, clans, etc.
 
I cannot enter the industry. I'm not an artist nor a programmer. The closest I ever came was myself and my brother making very basic games on a 386 box based around the Battletech series. I still get literature from Full Sail.
 
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