DirectX 12: The future of it within the console gaming space (specifically the XB1)

Hasn't that been known since day 1? The bigger question where does "DirectX 11.1 / 11.2 Tier 2" GPU fit in the DirectX 12 scheme, does 12 enable some things (on PC side and probably already at the moment on XB side) that current DirectX doesn't expose on GCN 1.1's?

 

I know alot of you feel that for Dx12 to provide any significant gains in performance on the Xbox One it would mean the original Api would have to be terrible. I guess that would be the most logical answer with the little info that has been released about Dx12. Im not so sure that is the right answer though.
As far as I have read Ms hasnt stated that dx 12 will provide closer to the metal access to the X1.
In fact they have implied that the X1 already has this low level access in it's current api. The gains in performance to the X1 will most likely come from other features and improvements that dx12 brings to the table. Thats just my 2 cents. Im not sure it will double performance that seems a little exagerated.
As far as improvements to the X1 as compared to the Ps4. People are getting to wrapped up in console wars and resolution. I just dont understand why it seems so impossible for a new api to bring improved performance over an older customised version on a console. I doesnt really matter what team you cheer for. Improvements in the way technology is used is a win for everyone. I hope that microsoft is actually able to back up its claims of performance increases on Pc, Xbox and mobile.

 

https://twitter.com/XboxP3/status/453002981730836481

 

So very little then. Those typical advances were achieved without whole new APIs, just by learning to maximise the hardware.

 

Phil is only commenting on the differences between hardware release (Perfect Dark Zero - I loved that game) and end of cycle (Halo 4 - not so much). None of that implies that DX12 will have any impact. This is the difference between working on new hardware, and then years later, understanding the hardware very well.

 

http://blogs.windows.com/windows/b/appbuilder/archive/2013/10/14/raising-the-bar-with-direct3d.aspx
Oct 14 2013
Developers creating content for the Xbox One are able to use the same programing constructs across Windows and Xbox, and benefit from all the improvements that have been introduced on Windows. With Xbox One we have also made significant enhancements to the implementation of Direct3D 11, especially in the area of runtime overhead. The result is a very streamlined, “close to metal” level of runtime performance. In conjunction with the third generation PIX performance tool for Xbox One, developers can use Direct3D 11 to unlock the full performance potential of the console.
...........We’re also working with our ISV and IHV partners on future efforts, including bringing the lightweight runtime and tooling capabilities of the Xbox One Direct3D implementation to Windows, and identifying the next generation of advanced 3D graphics technologies.

http://majornelson.com/cast/2013/08/02/mnr-486-marc-whitten-updates-us-on-the-progress-of-xbox-one/
(23:23)
Whitten:
"You know this is the time and this is the thing as we go into GamesCom and people really get their 1st look at new things since E3, but this is the time when developers have final devkits in their hands, their really working closely with us on how things have come together. There are some things that have really have started to come together quite well. "
Neslon:
"Yeah tell me about that"
Whitten:
"Since E3 we've dropped in what we've internally called the Mono Driver."
Nelson:
"What is that?"
Whitten:
"It's our graphics driver that really is 100 percent optimised for the Xbox One hardware. You start with the base [DirectX] driver, and then you take out all parts that don't look like Xbox One and you add in everything that really optimises that experience. Almost all of our content partners have really picked it up now, and I think it's made a really nice improvement."
Major Nelson:
"And this is how game developers can really, like we say, write to the metal?"
Whitten:
"That's right, exactly"

AMD -“What Mantle creates for the PC is a development environment that’s *similar* to the consoles, which already offer low-level APIs, close-to-metal programming, easier development and more (vs. the complicated PC environment). By creating a more console-like developer environment, Mantle: improves time to market; reduces development costs; and allows for considerably more efficient rendering, improving performance for gamers. The console connection is made because next-gen uses Radeon, so much of the programming they’re doing for the consoles are already well-suited to a modern Radeon architecture on the desktop; that continuum is what allows Mantle to exist.”

If the api was in such a poor state I think we'd hear more about its "apparent" poor state.

Xbox 360
http://download.microsoft.com/downl...neration_graphics_programming_on_xbox_360.ppt
Direct3D 9+ on Xbox 360
Similar API to PC Direct3D 9.0
Optimized for Xbox 360 hardware
No abstraction layers or drivers—it’s direct to the metal
Exposes all Xbox 360 custom hardware features
New state enums
New APIs for finer-grained control and completely new features

Lazy state
Direct3D batches up state in blocks that are optimized for submission to the GPU
Uses special CPU instructions for very low CPU overhead
Communicates with GPU via a command buffer
Ring buffer in system memory

Conclusion
Direct Command Buffer Playback support
Direct3D customized and optimized for the hardware
New APIs to take advantage of custom features
Direct to the metal, no drivers or HAL

 

That reads like DX11 was sufficient to make full use of the system. It doesn't make sense that 12 would magically make the system run any better if it's already 'to the metal'.

 

At DX11 level efficiency, DX11.x could be considered as "close to the metal". But DX12 should be more efficient than DX11.x as we know some important features aren't on XB1 yet.

 

We should distinguish Xbox/console dx11.x/d3d11.x from Windows/PC dx11.x/d3d11.x in our posts.

For anyone reading this, the last two posts are regarding Xbox/console implementation of dx11.x/d3d11.x.

 

nevermind

 

D3D 11.x is only on XB1.

http://blogs.windows.com/windows/b/appbuilder/archive/2013/10/14/raising-the-bar-with-direct3d.aspx

D3D 11.x benefits from some D3D 12 features like bundles or near to zero resource overhead. The latest D3D version which is available on PCs/Windows is D3D 11.2.

 

No, you are mistaken.
I was referring to x as .0, .1, .2 instead of writing out 11.0 11.1 11.2
That is what they were referring to. x doesn't mean exclusivity to xbox, but simply is a holder for any number.

Here is an example
13 Nov 2012
http://blogs.msdn.com/b/chuckw/archive/2012/11/14/directx-11-1-and-windows-7.aspx
Notes for users of VS 2012
"Visual Studio 2012’s Graphics Debugger supports Direct3D 11.0 applications on Windows 7 and DirectX 11.x applications on Windows 8. Improved support for KB 2670838 is in VS 2012 Update 2."

http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/windows/apps/ff476190.aspx
Can I port my DirectX 10 or 11 game to the Windows Store?
DirectX 10.x and 11 desktop games are easy to port to the Windows Store.

http://content.gpwiki.org/index.php/Template:DirectX:Tutorials#DirectX_8.x_Tutorials
TutorialsDirectX 8.x Tutorials
DirectX 7.x Tutorials

 

Oh, you are right then.

 

Well that's interessting
http://www.dualshockers.com/2014/04...-impressive-tech-demo-shows-performance-gain/

Is that maybe the "thing" the extra esram on xbox is used for? Those Descriptors are small and may be accessed quite often. nothing you want to have in main memory if you don't want to waste the bandwidth

 

Good read and reasonable conclusion about X1 at the end.

 

JK already posted.

 

they missing one point.

this would not only reduce cpu consumption, it would greatly reduce the needed memory bandwidth.

but still the best, more CPU-time for other tasks.

 

There is this idea that is floating around that DX12 for X1 will offer "in many circumstances" nearly 2x overall system performance for X1 floating around and its gaining momentum.

Unfortunately this started with the comments from GDC the DX12 presentation related to PCs that the reduction in cpu bundles/multithreadingdx/etc up to 50% comment.

Then that morphed into average 50% more cpu performance. And from that turned into 2x cpu performance, and from that turned into 2x overall system performance aka the equivalent of an "extra gpu" according to some.

Then Brad Wardell CEO of Stardock who created the Star Swarm demo which makes use of rarely ever seen high levels of draw calls, claims the benefits he's seeing will translate to everyone, draw call/cpu bottleneck or not.
http://www.neowin.net/news/directx-12-a-game-changer-for-xbox-one

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N0trrEQzWE4

New game-changing update will double Xbox One performance
http://bgr.com/2014/04/07/xbox-one-directx-12-update/
http://www.gamerheadlines.com/2014/04/explained-how-directx-12-doubles-the-power-of-xbox-one/

It didn't help various MS partners came out and mad e ridiculous statements.
AMD’s Raja Koduri said DirectX 12 was like “getting four generations of hardware ahead,”
Intel’s Vice President of Platform Engineering Eric Mentzer shared a similar sentiment, with, “This is absolutely, I think, the most significant jump in technology in a long, long time.”

Why didn't anyone make these claims about Mantle?

 

DX12 faster than Mantle? Microsoft says YES!

Well DX12's development director says that's what they're intending anyway:

http://www.dualshockers.com/2014/04...ter-than-mantle-new-videos-show-how-it-works/

 

Nvidia's directors say their new drivers offer up to 71% more sli performance. When the reality is something more along the lines of 0-11% performance improvement.

Outside of the Star Swarm demo which benefits becaues of how drawcall bound it is, and improvmeents in that area you aren't looking at much improvement.

Isn't it obvious that outside of games severely cpu bound or draw call bound , most games are not likely to see large performance improvements?