scooby_dooby
Legend
Nah, it looks fairly blurry and two dimensional to be perfectly honest.
http://images.playsyde.com/gallery/public/3400/644_0015.jpg
Direct Feed Heavenly Sword Screens (E3 build).
- Thread starter Bad_Boy
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Nah, it looks fairly blurry and two dimensional to be perfectly honest.
http://images.playsyde.com/gallery/public/3400/644_0015.jpg
Aw, come on. Give Skrying a break here, he did say that Lair looks impressive and he seemed to be blown away by Gundam: Operation Troy!
It doesn't look blurry to me. And it's clearly not flatly textured, probably parallax mapped.
Aw, come on. Give Skrying a break here, he did say that Lair looks impressive and he seemed to be blown away by Gundam: Operation Troy!
Both of which have an impressive sense of scale.
I'm still waiting for someone to show me some shots or footage of a place other than the arena for Heavenly Sword.
I agree, you can really see when the camera is at a raised angle.
http://watch.impress.co.jp/game/docs/20060908/hs05.jpg
http://watch.impress.co.jp/game/docs/20060908/hs14.jpg
I don't know... if people need to compare HS to good/advanced features in multiple games (instead of just 1), that says something about HS.
I think "impeccable standards" comments like Skrying's is still fair game as long as it is presented as such. They can't really be used to imply bad things about a game. But they can set high goals for the devs to meet (eventually).
I think "impeccable standards" comments like Skrying's is still fair game as long as it is presented as such. They can't really be used to imply bad things about a game. But they can set high goals for the devs to meet (eventually).
So, you'll happily praise and play though a dog awful looking game because it has an 'impressive sense of scale'?
If that is the linchpin of your entire critique with Heavenly Sword, well jeez man I'm not sure if we can prepare that much crow in time for TGS... This game was never billed as an arena fighter, so just becuase that's all they've shown, doesn't mean that's the scope of the game.
You're also criticising a game still heavy in development, with screenshots taken from an E3 2006 build and created on incomplete development hardware. I suppose, in the meantime, you should have a look at 99% of all other titles currently in development to see how your unrealisitc expectations match up with them too. No sense in singling out HS, right?
This game looks cool in motion but it's not nearly as impressive in stills. The back sections of the stadium floor are the quite blurry. Even right below the character, the floor could use more detail and sharpness. The character models could use more work. No muscle definitions. The swords do not reflect the light properly. Still, it's the gameplay that matters at the end of the day. Hopefully it's a game I'll be able to try out at a Kiosk.
Gradthrawn
Veteran
Oooh, touché. Now if only there weren't like a billion posts on the internet complaining about how crappy the game looked... Even then, this is about Skrying's expectations and how his scope argument is somehow supposed to address his comments in this thread; "The fact remains, at least to me, is that when I play a game for beyond five minutes that I start to see the little details that comprise the image." Shouldn't a game which has a significantly larger scope, produce much poorer results when we scruitinize it?
Huh? Neither Lair nor that Gundam game are aweful looking. Also, you completely ignored the context of the Gundam comment, there's a reference to the other Gundam game that is coming out that was mentioned in that thread.
Lair, even without the scale, blows away Heavenly Sword from what I've seen of it.
So wait here for a second. You're saying that scale has no effect on the amount of detail you can expect? There is a MASSIVE difference from what I'd expect from a game that seems to be based in a arena (again, this is only what I've seen of HS, and I dont give care what the heck they "bill it as") and one that takes place in the air, jungle, or on the battle field, the side of a castle, etc. You expect detail to go down as scale goes up, its the nature of graphcis.
How does the fact that its in development change what it looks like currently, or my expectations or impressions of the current state of the game? I guess its perfectly fine for you to gawk over the game and praise it to high heaven, but if you for one second say something negative then its completely and totally not allowed. Sorry, but I find major fault in that idea.
There are a number of games currently in development that I believe look better than Heavenly Sword.
Well you said it was impressive and I didn't want to repeat myself since you said the same for Lair, that's all. I was quite aware of your context. Since you live in this narrow bubble of only accepting the media we currently have, I fail to see your praise of these ignoring scope:
http://www.jp.playstation.com/scej/title/lair/img/ss01.jpg
http://www.jp.playstation.com/scej/title/lair/img/ss02.jpg
That's the kind of talk which makes me want to put you on ignore.
This is the crux of the fallacy you are spinning. How can these games you praise not receive the exact same treatment you've given Heavenly Sword? For someone who cannot play a game for more than 5 minutes before picking flaws, these larger scope games must cause you a great deal of sadness...
Well you said it was impressive and I didn't want to repeat myself since you said the same for Lair, that's all. I was quite aware of your context. Since you live in this narrow bubble of only accepting the media we currently have, I fail to see your praise of these ignoring scope:
http://www.jp.playstation.com/scej/title/lair/img/ss01.jpg
http://www.jp.playstation.com/scej/title/lair/img/ss02.jpg
That's the kind of talk which makes me want to put you on ignore.
This is the crux of the fallacy you are spinning. How can these games you praise not receive the exact same treatment you've given Heavenly Sword? For someone who cannot play a game for more than 5 minutes before picking flaws, these larger scope games must cause you a great deal of sadness...
You can not ignore scope, scale, etc. That's what I'm trying to get across to you. The Lair shots are not that impressive on a fine detail basis, as the soldiers are all the same, and the colors are not that great either. But the fact that there are hundreds of soldiers and the buildings are huge and have large flying dragons shooting fire changes everything. You expect less detail as scale goes up. Why cant you understand this?
What we've been shown of Heavenly Sword is very confined. There is nothing large or grand about it. You therefore expect the detail to go up because the scale is down. Easy concept.
I will not make up images or movies in my head. I'm glad you are so willing to except an idea that youc an readily make believe images and therefore correctly judge the looks of HS. Its an amazing ability.
Yeesh, before we continue please watch the E3 2005 trailer for Heavenly Sword:
http://uk.media.ps3.ign.com/media/700/700186/vids_2.html
It's a very easy concept to understand. But why does a larger scale make poorer graphics acceptable to you? You are still taking in the instance by instance poorer graphical experience when you begin your inpsection of the "little details that comprise the image". I think you're just holding this game to a double standard, that's all.
Gradthrawn
Veteran
I'm not sure I understand your argument. Yes, there are a billion post complaining about how crappy the game looked, especially the PS2 version. Even the reviews addressed the bland texture, poor character models etc. That was exactly my point. The game looks like crap, but had incredible scale for its time, and its scope is what many praised (and was an excellent game to boot). It has crappy graphics, but a large scale and I (and countless others) more than happily played and praised the game. Although, I'm talking about from an overall perspective, not specifically just graphics. Maybe that's where there is a disconnect between our comments.
Yep, I would think so. And all the current examples I can think of agree with that. I'm not arguing against your point in defense of his post, I'm arguing against your point individually, since GTA (among others) have shown that a game with crappy graphics but excellent scope can be happily praised and played.
All else being equal that is (eg, it's actually a good game worth playing).
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Its been confirmed many times over that there will be hundreds if not thousands of soldiers to fight against in Heavenly Sword (actually 3 modes of play: 1on1, 1vs dozens, 1vshundreds/thousands). The heavenly sword demo at gdc is even more evidence of that...
http://youtube.com/watch?v=GsPpwlPHT1U
Skrying is a self confessed graphics whore, according to the defense of his comments on Heavenly Sword. I'm playing devils advocate to highlight a double standard. *ssh*I'm not arguing against your point in defense of his post, I'm arguing against your point individually, since GTA (among others) have shown that a game with crappy graphics but excellent scope can be happily praised and played.
I had great enjoyment from GTA, too.
See, now you're really not making much sense. You first said "only accepting the media that we have" and then you show me this. That is media we already, I hope you do know that. The areas shown in those are more impressive and the massive battlefield is certainly so. That is where my comments about scale come into play. Suddently when you see a battlefield with hundreds of people you must reconsider the closed and confined areas.
How was it so hard to point this out to me in the start? Instead you argued over a point that you could not when, I was being condintional. Specifically stating that scale changes everything....
Gradthrawn
Veteran
Its been confirmed many times over that there will be hundreds if not thousands of soldiers to fight against in Heavenly Sword (actually 3 modes of play: 1on1, 1vs dozens, 1vshundreds/thousands). The heavenly sword demo at gdc is even more evidence of that...
http://youtube.com/watch?v=GsPpwlPHT1U
Whoa, how did I miss that video before?
Very interesting link. Do you know the where and when of that clip? Before E306 from what I can demise, since that car demo was for “an unannounced game,” which we now know to be Eight Days. I don't remember seeing that at E305, either. EDIT
Unbelievable, where its from is right in the title.
Oh, ok, I see now.
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There are two contentions. The graphical merits of HS per instance (i.e. the screenshots we have today), and the graphical merits of your 'justifications' on large scale games. Again, you reinforced this standard that you have to nitpick image quality as little as 5 minutes into playing a game as a justification for criticising HS. You even cite a large scale game (BF2) which you talked about being the "worst offender on its fine details. Yet to follow up, you are now defending two games which have poor image quality on the fine details but large scale interactions. How can you universally be praising Lair and Gundam then, when Heavenly Sword has a flexible game engine which scales image quality for both large and small scale encounters? It not only has higher image quality in these screenshots than either of those games are showing, but also has these larger scale interactions as well.
[edit]You're saying it has neither the fine detail, nor 'large scale' excuse, whereas I am saying it has both over the two games you universally praised.
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