Digital Foundry Microsoft Xbox Scorpio Reveal [2017: 04-06, 04-11, 04-15, 04-16]

[BadTB25]

Does this bode well for built in mic in the controller or console since there is no Kinect port but does have HDMI in?

 

[Scott_Arm]

OK you are inferring a lot from the article that just isn't there. You are also saying the GPU tech is inferior to Ps4pro without any real facts to back that up.
How in anyway do you except inferior GPU performance from a machine that clearly has an advantage in CUs and clock speed compared to the pro. That really sounds like a case of bias to me.

The Scorpio is clearly a more powerful box than the pro in every way possible. The Scorpio will more likely hit native 4k much more often than the Pro because of its advantage in memory bandwidth alone. Now factor in 40% + GPU advantage as well as the CPU clock advantage and it becomes pretty obvious that the Scorpio is in no way inferior to the ps4pro.

Well, PS4 Pro can do double rate fp16. So right now you're comparing an Xbox GPU that's 6 tflops (fp32) to a PS4 Pro gpu that's 4.2 tflops (fp32) or 8.4 tflops (fp16). Obviously a game can't do everything fp16, so I don't know where a real-world game ends up if it's optimizing with fp16 where it can.

 

[Scott_Arm]

Does this bode well for built in mic in the controller or console since there is no Kinect port but does have HDMI in?

I remember that it DOES include HDMI in.

Since port arrangement is based on Xbox One S, there's no return for the original Xbox One's Kinect port (a USB adapter is required) but the HDMI input is retained.

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-2017-project-scorpio-tech-revealed

 

[BadTB25]

I remember that it DOES include HDMI in.


http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-2017-project-scorpio-tech-revealed

That's what I'm saying. It does have HDMI in so do we have away to still have voice features without a Kinect (other than the headset for voice input).

 

[Scott_Arm]

That's what I'm saying. It does have HDMI in so do we have away to still have voice features without a Kinect (other than the headset for voice input).

Oh, sorry. I misunderstood. I remember reading something a while ago about them working on supporting mic arrays for the Xbox consoles. No idea where I read it, or if there was a timeline.

 

[3dilettante]

Apparently DF was given the chance to look at the chip plan, but sadly wasn't able to share.

They quadrupled the GPU's L2, but increased the number of channels by 50%. Odd math with that.

 

[Deleted member 11852]

Does this bode well for built in mic in the controller or console since there is no Kinect port but does have HDMI in?

Has anybody tried a mic in the controller? You'd need to noise cancel the clicky-clacking of sticks, button presses and vibration of rumble. It's not an impossible task but it wouldn't be my first choice.

 

[Love_In_Rio]

OK you are inferring a lot from the article that just isn't there. You are also saying the GPU tech is inferior to Ps4pro without any real facts to back that up.
How in anyway do you except inferior GPU performance from a machine that clearly has an advantage in CUs and clock speed compared to the pro. That really sounds like a case of bias to me.

The Scorpio is clearly a more powerful box than the pro in every way possible. The Scorpio will more likely hit native 4k much more often than the Pro because of its advantage in memory bandwidth alone. Now factor in 40% + GPU advantage as well as the CPU clock advantage and it becomes pretty obvious that the Scorpio is in no way inferior to the ps4pro.

I am inferring what we know.The article's job should have been to make people know more.

 

[RancidLunchmeat]

That's two questions in one. Will it be binary compatible the installed games on external media.

Will you get direct improvements with unpatched 360 or x1 titles. Ie fresh install.of already released titles from.diak or download with no developer patches.

The former is unknown but the latter was talked about. No screen tearing, stable frame rate, highest possible resolution for dynamic resolution games, forced 16x AF on all titles.

No, it's not two questions it's a single question. You are hallucinating a second question that wasn't asked because it was already answered.

Can you take your external HDD that currently has 360 and XB1 games installed on it, unplug it from your current system and plug it into the Scorpio and play those games without the need to download or update the games?

 

[shredenvain]

Well, PS4 Pro can do double rate fp16. So right now you're comparing an Xbox GPU that's 6 tflops (fp32) to a PS4 Pro gpu that's 4.2 tflops (fp32) or 8.4 tflops (fp16). Obviously a game can't do everything fp16, so I don't know where a real-world game ends up if it's optimizing with fp16 where it can.

Yeah I remember the fp16 capabilities of the ps4, but there is no hard evidence stating the Scorpio doesn't have the same capabilities. Also I haven't myself seen any instance of a Dev mentioning the use of fp16 in any pro title.

 

[bgroovy]

It's adorable that Microsoft managed expectations so badly they have to pretend their die-shrunk Jaguar cores constitutes a "custom x86 design". Also their streak of pretending they invented a standard GPU feature continues as they brag about the command processor the way they went on about DMAs (excuse me, DMEs) in 2013. I do have to wonder how upset their balance obsessed technical fellows must be at this design being so much more lopsided than the Xbox One was.

 

[Rikimaru]

Yeah I remember the fp16 capabilities of the ps4, but there is no hard evidence stating the Scorpio doesn't have the same capabilities. Also I haven't myself seen any instance of a Dev mentioning the use of fp16 in any pro title.

DICE said 30% improvement in some shader.
Also DICE has a lot of ideas how to use ID buffer.

 

[Scott_Arm]

Yeah I remember the fp16 capabilities of the ps4, but there is no hard evidence stating the Scorpio doesn't have the same capabilities. Also I haven't myself seen any instance of a Dev mentioning the use of fp16 in any pro title.

You know what they say about assuming. It makes as sum e ... Maybe I got that wrong.

 

[Deleted member 11852]

Yeah I remember the fp16 capabilities of the ps4, but there is no hard evidence stating the Scorpio doesn't have the same capabilities. Also I haven't myself seen any instance of a Dev mentioning the use of fp16 in any pro title.

Mass Effect Andromeda.

 

[Rikimaru]

It's adorable that Microsoft managed expectations so badly they have to pretend their die-shrunk Jaguar cores constitutes a "custom x86 design". Also their streak of pretending they invented a standard GPU feature continues as they brag about the command processor the way they went on about DMAs (excuse me, DMEs) in 2013. I do have to wonder how upset their balance obsessed technical fellows must be at this design being so much more lopsided than the Xbox One was.

Hovis Method - the new cloud power.
http://www.xbox.com/en-US/project-scorpio - this page is laughable.
Scorpio Engine
With 6 Teraflops, 326GB/s Memory Bandwidth and advanced, custom silicon, the Scorpio Engine is most powerful gaming processor ever created.
Vapor Chamber
A first for home consoles, Project Scorpio’s Vapor Chamber uses advanced liquid cooling to ensure the Scorpio Engine stays cool.
Centrifugal Fan
A supercharger-style Centrifugal Fan rapidly pulls in and compresses air to deliver maximum cooling with minimum noise.
Hovis Method
To maximize performance and minimize power consumption, Project Scorpio uses the Hovis Method, a cutting edge digital power delivery system that custom tunes each console’s voltage.
(aka noise lottery)

 

[Globalisateur]

No FP16 ? No ID Buffer ? No freesync ? renamed upclocked Jaguar ?

Software "cloud 2" features ?

Also, : 2.1ghz / 1.6ghz = 2.3ghz / 1.75ghz

Yeah I remember the fp16 capabilities of the ps4, but there is no hard evidence stating the Scorpio doesn't have the same capabilities. Also I haven't myself seen any instance of a Dev mentioning the use of fp16 in any pro title.

Mantis Burn Racing developers used (notably) fp16 in order to aim native 4K60fps on Pro instead of 1080p60fps on base PS4. And that was done by a relatively small team compared to Dice :

The team joked about 'Mantis magic' before revealing that exploiting enhancements made to the PlayStation 4 Pro GPU have paid dividends. Of course, we already knew that the Pro graphics core implements a range of new instructions - it was part of the initial leak - but we didn't really know exactly what they could actually do. As we understand it, with the new enhancements, it's possible to complete two 16-bit floating point operations in the time taken to complete one on the base PS4 hardware. The end result from the new Radeon technology is the additional throughput required to making Mantis Burn Racing hit its 4K performance target, though significant shader optimisation was required on the part of the developer.

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-2016-hands-on-with-mantis-burn-racing-on-ps4-pro

 

[Scott_Arm]

It's adorable that Microsoft managed expectations so badly they have to pretend their die-shrunk Jaguar cores constitutes a "custom x86 design". Also their streak of pretending they invented a standard GPU feature continues as they brag about the command processor the way they went on about DMAs (excuse me, DMEs) in 2013. I do have to wonder how upset their balance obsessed technical fellows must be at this design being so much more lopsided than the Xbox One was.

Nowhere do they claim to have invented the command processor. They just claim to have made some optimizations. Nothing looks particularly out of line here.

 

[Anarchist4000]

I'm not sure about the "evolved" Jaguar, either. Microsoft said they tweaked the Xbox One's Jaguar, but then said they didn't really touch the cores specifically. The latency improvement sounds like it's something similar to what they did for the Xbox One, or more changes to the interfaces or logic further out from the cores.

My take was the latency boost was coming from added L2. Tailoring the CP to DX12 and indirect to reduce CPU load I would think is sufficient.

Also based on the high GPU clock speeds, it just lines up too well with the predicted Vega clocks. It makes sense that the same optimizations are in play to get the clocks of a console this high would allow for more clock speed in Vega.

They also seem to line up with the recent Polaris refresh clocks, while still being a bit conservative for lower power.

Obviously a game can't do everything fp16, so I don't know where a real-world game ends up if it's optimizing with fp16 where it can.

AMD demoed packed math on Vega as "digital Rogaine", so I'd imagine the costly physics simulations and particles where accuracy matters less see a nice boost. The particles are what crushed a lot of games on certain scenes. Assuming packed math with Scorpio, it may be Microsoft porting shaders with their verification process. Would definitely make 4k60 easier.

 

[3dilettante]

Also their streak of pretending they invented a standard GPU feature continues as they brag about the command processor the way they went on about DMAs (excuse me, DMEs) in 2013.

There were customizations to the DMEs, including I believe there being more of them than was standard.
The command processor is a necessary part of the GPU, however, if the assumption is that there is a custom microcode package targeting higher-level DX12 functions is true, that is not standard. Microsoft did have certain customizations along those lines for Durango, though I am assuming it's far more extensive for Scorpio.

 

[Karamazov]

isn't FP16 mandatory in recent gpus ? Why would it be absent from Scorpio ?