Digital Foundry Microsoft Xbox Scorpio Reveal [2017: 04-06, 04-11, 04-15, 04-16]

[Jupiter]

There are many games on PC which have higher resolution textures like Watch Dogs 2, Mass Effect: Andromeda or Ghost Recon Wildlands.

PC vs. PlayStation 4 [2:50 -3:30]

PlayStation 4 Pro vs. PlayStation 4 [3:42 - 4:35]

--> textures look the same on both PlayStations

Watch Dogs 2:
http://images.nvidia.com/geforce-co...interactive-comparison-001-ultra-vs-high.html

 

[DavidGraham]

There are also Far Cry Primal, Rainbow Six Siege, Rise Of Tomb Raider, Hitman, Deus Ex Mankind Divided, Forza Horizon 3 and Gears Of War 4

 

[Jupiter]

I have not followed these games closely enough to contribute something but it would not surprise me.
Of course it's different from case to case. In some games the differences in texture quality are larger and in some they are smaller.

Scropio could benefit from the larger memory.

 

[mpg1]

Yes. They were done in software and didn't use an ID buffer. The ID buffer in hardware is something new and Sony seemingly is set to have exclusive use of it, requiring others not licensing the tech to implement the ID buffer in software.

yeah I'm aware of that...my point was merely that checkerboarding/checkerboarding-like technique was used before PS4 Pro came along..

 

[mpg1]

I'm surprised that DF hasn't done their, "after our insight into Scorpio, here's our mocked up pc, comparing to 4pro" video yet.

wondering if they are waiting for RX580 to release...even though they could do the same thing with RX480...

 

[turkey]

wondering if they are waiting for RX580 to release...even though they could do the same thing with RX480...

Unless they know something else?

Come on secret sauce! ;-)

 

[BadTB25]

Looks like we're back to a drought of information for a while. These threads have been a little dead since there is no new info to speculate/debate on.

 

[powdercore]

Nope, those 2.3GHz are definitely sustained clock rates.


Of course it will. As good as Vulkan/DX12 can be, games developed for consoles don't have to prioritize compatibility over low-level optimization or just choosing the assets according to hardware capabilities.


My thoughts exactly.
Xbox was the one who needed a mid-gen upgrade the most, yet it's coming a year later. And it's coming without a manufacturing process advantage or Zen or a newer GPU architecture or GDDR5X or HBM2 or anything that became or will be available between PS4 Pro's release and Q4 2017.

The theory during the past few months is that Microsoft was waiting for HDMI 2.1, but Digital Foundry mentioned HDMI 2 already..


Well the "variable refresh rate" twitter post got deleted, though until HDMI 2.1 TVs come to the shelves (somewhere in 2018?) this would only be useful for people willing to hook up their consoles to Freesync monitors.
There was also zero mention of VR capabilities, so we don't know if Scorpio's VR will be a single xbox-branded headset or you'll be able to choose among some of the $300+ headsets for Windows 10 that are coming up later this year.

They waited a year to get:

6 TF vs. 4.2 TF
2.3 GHz vs. 2.1 GHz
326 GB/s vs. 218 GB/s
12 GB vs. 8+1 GB
HDMI 2.1 VRR vs. HDMI 2.0
And 60 customization in the hardware silicon to reduce bottlenecks that they profiled from actual games
And streamline their development toolkits
And lastly to get the cost down to their target point
And all of these are gambles

MS could have followed Sony into 2016 but they would have exactly what Sony had unless that's all PR talk.

 

[powdercore]

But Richard seems a Misterxmedia fanboy in some paragraphs.It could end up being negative for the DF image...

You do realize that Sony also once paid for DF accommodation on the PS4?

Yes, we have confirmation it has the minimum in the power speculation range speculated.But worse as it seems GPU tech is inferior to PS4 Pro's.And they want to sell the message about a super gpu with the directx embebed thing(that could be a Polaris standard thing as techreport's journalist says).Is the cloud computing all over again.Why did Spencer say they were a year later than Sony to get better tech?.

What is inferior about this?

6 TF vs. 4.2 TF
2.3 GHz vs. 2.1 GHz
326 GB/s vs. 218 GB/s
12 GB vs. 8+1 GB
HDMI 2.1 VRR vs. HDMI 2.0

PR went batshit crazy here. Supercharger-style to describe a centrifugal fan, WTF? High static pressure at low rpm is the goal, compression itself is a side effect, i.e it must counteract flow resistance, and the drawback is precisely that it DOESN'T sucks air as rapidly (lower CFM at the same rpm and diameter, specially backward slanted blades)

But the rest of the sentence is true, max cooling for minimum noise, and a lot of MS fanboys should feel shame for their claims against blower fans.

Shame... Shame... Shame....

Sorry there's nothing against blower type fans. Blower fans by themselves are not a bad thing but they become bad when they make a jet engine sound in certain games in the PS4/PS4Pro. The XB1/XB1S however remains much quieter.

 

[MrFox]

MS could have followed Sony into 2016 but they would have exactly what Sony had unless that's all PR talk.

Hard to tell without knowing if MS had planned to have 2xFP16 and ID Buffer in 2016... Since we don't even know for sure what they have now, I would wait for more information before assuming their plan was that similar. Chances are slim.

The motherboard layout looks like a rushed design with power transient issues solved with brute force (all xbox m/b do, but this time it's insane, it goes to 11). My guess is that they changed course very late in the game, and mostly changed the clocking, not the technologies in the SoC. Leading to a 2017 launch with 2016 tech. The 384bit memory was a given from the start, since they can't emulate the esram without it. Everything except the clocking could have been done in 2016 for a reasonable cost. It could be the same SoC for all we know.

Just one hypothesis among others...

 

[HBRU]

Mr Fox yes.... Exactly my impression. Overclocked older stuff than ps4pro (as it seems fp16x2 not integrated). But The the 384bit memory bus will give anyway good results IMHO... but not dramatically different from ps4-pro (that is going to be the budget Sony console). At least MS could have launched at TMSC 10 nanometers. I think will see a very quite & smart ps4-pro at TMSC 10 nanometers in the end of 2018.

 

[bunge]

They waited a year to get:

6 TF vs. 4.2 TF
2.3 GHz vs. 2.1 GHz
326 GB/s vs. 218 GB/s
12 GB vs. 8+1 GB
HDMI 2.1 VRR vs. HDMI 2.0
And 60 customization in the hardware silicon to reduce bottlenecks that they profiled from actual games
And streamline their development toolkits
And lastly to get the cost down to their target point
And all of these are gambles

MS could have followed Sony into 2016 but they would have exactly what Sony had unless that's all PR talk.

Yeah.

You do realize that Sony also once paid for DF accommodation on the PS4?

Yeah!

What is inferior about this?

6 TF vs. 4.2 TF
2.3 GHz vs. 2.1 GHz
326 GB/s vs. 218 GB/s
12 GB vs. 8+1 GB
HDMI 2.1 VRR vs. HDMI 2.0

YEAH!

Sorry there's nothing against blower type fans. Blower fans by themselves are not a bad thing but they become bad when they make a jet engine sound in certain games in the PS4/PS4Pro. The XB1/XB1S however remains much quieter.

YEAH!!!!!

U R GONNA WIIIINNNNNNING!!!!!!

 

[-Sweeper_]

Inside the Scorpio Engine: the processor architecture deep dive
How the chip that powers the next Xbox was made.

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-2017-the-scorpio-engine-in-depth

 

[Ike Turner]

Inside the Scorpio Engine: the processor architecture deep dive
How the chip that powers the next Xbox was made.

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-2017-the-scorpio-engine-in-depth

According to Goossen, some performance optimisations from the upcoming AMD Vega architecture factor into the Scorpio Engine's design, but other features that made it into PS4 Pro - for example, double-rate FP16 processing - do not. However, customisation was extensive elsewhere. Microsoft's GPU command processor implementation of DX12 has provided big wins for Xbox One developers, and it's set for expansion in Scorpio.

"Despite that, we're actually faster on the GPU too. You might think, oh you're sending more commands to the GPU now, maybe you're slowing down the GPU," suggests Goossen. "Well, very rarely are we draw-bound on the command processor. And the nice thing is that even when we are draw-bound now in D3D12, again we are more efficient even from the GPU perspective, because we're built-in. We don't have a very big and noisy and abstract interface we have to deal with. We just have the logic built right into the command processor, and in the command processor we can do more optimisations than we can in the driver."

Microsoft didn't delve too deeply into specifics on the checkerboarding support that Scorpio possesses at the hardware level. However, Andrew Goossen tells us that the GPU supports extensions that allow depth and ID buffers to be efficiently rendered at full native resolution, while colour buffers can be rendered at half resolution with full pixel shader efficiency. Based on conversations last year with Mark Cerny, there is some commonality in approach here with some of the aspects of PlayStation 4 Pro's design, but we can expect some variation in customisations - despite both working with AMD, we're reliably informed that neither Sony or Microsoft are at all aware of each other's designs before they are publicly unveiled.

What is clear is that both companies had very different design priorities. Sony doubled down on checkerboarding support at a hardware level for addressing a 4K display because effectively there was no other choice: a 2.3x compute boost and only a modest bump to memory bandwidth over PS4 ruled out native 4K on top-tier titles. Microsoft's focus is clearly on pursuing higher native resolutions - the stops were pulled out on memory bandwidth and processing power, plus there's the focus on customising the silicon according to content.

 

[BRiT]

Finally the article is released...

A bit of a shame on the DR FP16, but using the 30% improvement developer number (from sebbi I think?) should still place the Scorpio above 4Pro given the 42% higher 6TF over 4.2TF specs.

EDIT: It's unclear if the 30% improvement is from just using FP16 over FP32 or if it's from using Double-Rate FP16 over normal FP16. So the improvement might apply to both.

 

[mrcorbo]

Inside the Scorpio Engine: the processor architecture deep dive
How the chip that powers the next Xbox was made.

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-2017-the-scorpio-engine-in-depth

The details of the simulation process are interesting, as is how much of that time was spent on insuring full BC with Xbox One. Sounds like the bulk of the development effort for Scorpio was spent on making the required development process for Scorpio as much like, "Do what you're already doing, but when you get to the end hit the '4K' button instead of the '900p/1080p' button." as possible. Then it's up to the developers to determine if it's worth putting in more effort than that.

 

[mrcorbo]

Finally the article is released...

A bit of a shame on the DR FP16, but using the 30% improvement developer number (from sebbi I think?) should still place the Scorpio above 4Pro given the 42% higher 6TF over 4.2TF specs.

The increased memory bandwidth and capacity also matter. Devs will be able to achieve similar results with PS4 Pro as they will with Scorpio, but they will have to work a bit harder to get them.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

Lack of double rate FP16 is curious. Also closes the performance delta potentially. What with this and the ID buffer, it'll be very interesting how the two system compare. VRR certainly makes Scorpio the choice of the elite gamer though.

Mid gen boxes ended up being a lot more interesting than we feared!

 

[Ike Turner]

It lacks Double-rate FP16 not FP16 support all-together. Xbox One and PS4 where GCN2 based and didn't have support for single rate 16Bit ops which was introduced in GCN3 and supported in GCN4 (which is Polaris..thus Scorpio has is). PS4 Pro in addition supports Double-rate 16bit ops which will be part of GCN5 (Vega).

 

[chris1515]

Lack of FP16 is curious. Also closes the performance delta potentially. What with this and the ID buffer, it'll be very interesting how the two system compare. VRR certainly makes Scorpio the choice of the elite gamer though.

Mid gen boxes ended up being a lot more interesting than we feared!

It is not lack of fp16, fp16 is available on AMD GPU since Tonga. It is lack of dual fp16.

And fp16 without dual fp16 is a good things at register level.