Digital Foundry Microsoft Xbox Scorpio Reveal [2017: 04-06, 04-11, 04-15, 04-16]

[Nesh]

I remember only not that long ago exclusives were seen as generally bad for the gaming industry. Weird how the narrative on that has changed and now it is the main reason to buy a console.

Trust me if Microsoft went out on Netflix-like spending spree on getting exclusive content for it's platform there would not be "Great!, now I have a reason to buy an Xbox or use Windows Store". There would be outright condemnation and "it's stupid that isn't available on every console" and "when will it be available on Steam?"

I believe exclusives were always seen as a good thing. Complains were coming usually from platform owners that lost exclusives like the N64 or the Saturn due to their lower market performance, hardware or license peculiarities, or when some company got exclusive rights from a franchise that was usually multiplatform or exclusive on a different system. So you bought for example a Nintendo console to play Final Fantasy only to find later it wont show up on that but on a different platform. Exclusive games were enjoyed a lot during the 32 and 128 bit era and we always wanted exclusive games for our hardware.
But if we go farther back, there was a time when exclusives were indeed a problem because of the amount and way a platform holder was getting them against competition. During the 8bit era Nintendo were using unfair competition practices, which stripped the more capable Sega Master System from content. Any developer who made games on NES had to accept Nintendo's terms that the game will not be released anywhere else.

 

[bunge]

I remember only not that long ago exclusives were seen as generally bad for the gaming industry. Weird how the narrative on that has changed and now it is the main reason to buy a console.

I'm sorry but this is crap. Investing in studios has always been supported. Buying exclusive rights to a third party game that was already expected on a competing platform has been chastized.

If you want to drop the level of conversation down to stale, straw man arguments you can but you should also be ridiculed for it.

Has anyone ever complained that Forza or Gran Turismo are exclusives? No, so quit derailing the discussion.

 

[Inuhanyou]

Actually, there have been certain camps angry even about first party games, but that's another story.

 

[rokkerkory]

New vid:

 

[Goodtwin]

Really good video by DF. Any illusion that Scorpio is a next gen console can be tossed in the trash. This is a 4K Xbox One model that will be anchored to the original Xbox One. Rich made it pretty clear in the video that Microsoft set out to do Xbox One level rendering, but in 4k instead of 900p/1080p. They mentioned that 30fps games becoming 60fps games on Scorpio were unlikely because of the modest CPU upgrade. This is a premium Xbox One, and its going to be interesting seeing just how much demand there is for such a device. I expect you will see the majority of sales coming from existing Xbox One users, with the majority of late adopters continuing to choose the less expensive Xbox One S or PS4. Perhaps this is a way to get sales from your existing userbase seeing as how Sony has cleaned house this generation, and Xbox One sales have been on a downward trajectory. I don't see Scropio changing their fotrtuness much, but I suppose if they can sell 10-20 million Scorpios to their existing 30 million Xbox One userbase, that will help their bottom line, even though it wont really have changed their market share much. Its an excellent product, that your tech enthusiast should really dig, but I think this is a niche market in comparison to the $299 and less console market. Time will tell.

 

[Rootax]

Well yeah it's a nice hardware, but MS problem right now is games imo. A refresh won't change that, it's too late. I'm still curious about the size and noise of the final product.

 

[Deleted member 11852]

I'm still curious about the size and noise of the final product.

The noises should be in good. In Gears it'll go pew pew pew.. kablooooooooom!

 

[BRiT]

The noises should be in good. In Gears it'll go pew pew pew.. kablooooooooom!

Even more so with Microsoft HRTF or Dolby Atmos!

 

[RancidLunchmeat]

PC games are much worse than console games when it comes to using the newest hardware features.

New GPU features aren't faring much better. DirectX 11 was released in 2009. That's 8 years ago. Most PC games are designed for DirectX 11, and are using exactly the same features that were available already in 2009. DirectX API versions 11.2 and 11.3 bring new features, but those APIs are not compatible with Windows 7, the most common gaming OS. Practically no PC developer supports these features, including common middle-ware such as Unity and Unreal Engine. We still haven't seen any game that requires DirectX 12 or Vulkan. Some games support these new APIs mainly to reduce the CPU load, but most don't use any new GPU features, such as conservative raster, execute indirect, bindless resources, rasterizer ordered views, tiled resources or cross lane ops. AMD GCN 1.0 (from 2012) still has important features left that are not exposed in any modern PC graphics API. So does NVIDIA Fermi.

But that was kinda my point earlier. If nobody but MS first party titles (such as Forza Tech Demo that we're getting our performance ideas from) use DX12 features, aren't we then using an example that is a best case scenario but unlikely to occur in reality?

 

[temesgen]

overall it really looks like MS listened to all the complaints hardcore gamers had(resolution, AF, framerate etc...), to offer a great system at a reasonnable budget.
I could see them push developpers to go for 2 modes: native 4K at xbox one specs at the very least with 4k textures and 16 AF, and a lower res but 60fps mode and added details (with, like ps4pro, a minimum required of 1080p).
It would become the perfect enthusiast gamer console.

Budget is key to understanding the design choice. Scorpio was never going to have the installation base needed to justify new game play experiences so that leaves us with graphics. Overall this will be a solid choice for people with 4k TVs but fundamentally just like PS4p, if you have a 1080p display the current hardware is sufficient IMO.

Sent from my ONE A2005 using Tapatalk

 

[Jay]

if you have a 1080p display the current hardware is sufficient IMO

true, unless you want the best performing and looking *console experience.

edit : Added the word console

 

[Goodtwin]

true, unless you want the best performing and looking experience.

Wouldn't that require PC? Even with 4k tv sales starting to overtake 1080p, most people aren't buying a new tv every few years. I would venture to guess most people are still gaming on 1080p or even 720p tv's. If your an enthusiast who lives tech and had a 4k tv, Scorpio is targeting you as a consumer. I just don't think it's a mass market product. The increased cost over a basic model will turn away most consumers. If there was unique software to differentiate itself then that would be different, but I am not hearing exclusives as being likely for Scorpio.

Sent from my SM-G360V using Tapatalk

 

[bunge]

Any illusion that Scorpio is a next gen console can be tossed in the trash. This is a 4K Xbox One model that will be anchored to the original Xbox One.

This is important. I hesitate to call this a "perfect" release as the price hasn't been announced, but it's a great machine for anyone wanting to play Xbox One games. If someone was hesitant to buy an Xbox because of the power struggle, that concern is gone. If someone was already tied to the PlayStation ecosystem, no CPU/GPU would change them now.

 

[bunge]

Actually, there have been certain camps angry even about first party games, but that's another story.

Great. Then people should post AT those camps instead of generalizing about gigantic swaths of people. One is legit criticism, the other is a straw man argument I hope steers clear of these forums.

 

[iroboto]

Really good video by DF. Any illusion that Scorpio is a next gen console can be tossed in the trash. This is a 4K Xbox One model that will be anchored to the original Xbox One. Rich made it pretty clear in the video that Microsoft set out to do Xbox One level rendering, but in 4k instead of 900p/1080p. I don't see Scropio changing their fotrtuness much, but I suppose if they can sell 10-20 million Scorpios to their existing 30 million Xbox One userbase, that will help their bottom line, even though it wont really have changed their market share much. Its an excellent product, that your tech enthusiast should really dig, but I think this is a niche market in comparison to the $299 and less console market. Time will tell.

Good summary, is add a small asterisk to it though. The success of both these mid generation refreshes will over time swing in their favour. The longer the runway to next gen the more likely folks would have switched to 4K. If there are more 4K owners than 1080p owners, than the product is no longer niche, but mainstream. Eventually the older models will become niche. That swap may take 3-4 years to happen of course.

But what is the rush to next gen?

 

[Anarchist4000]

I think it was against locking HDR to 4K panels. If there was a quality screen with HDR that was cheaper than the 4K variant it would sell very well.

Locking to 4k I haven't seen, but haven't looked that closely at latest panels either. I thought it was more along the lines of only a 4k capable console doing HDR, not 4k+HDR exclusively.

Along the lines of variable refresh I mentioned would be higher base framerates and getting away from the 30fps with increasingly higher resolution. 4k60 over 8k30 for example, but panel manufacturers can't market that.

 

[Jay]

Wouldn't that require PC? Even with 4k tv sales starting to overtake 1080p, most people aren't buying a new tv every few years. I would venture to guess most people are still gaming on 1080p or even 720p tv's. If your an enthusiast who lives tech and had a 4k tv, Scorpio is targeting you as a consumer. I just don't think it's a mass market product. The increased cost over a basic model will turn away most consumers. If there was unique software to differentiate itself then that would be different, but I am not hearing exclusives as being likely for Scorpio.

Sent from my SM-G360V using Tapatalk

if you want the best console experience regardless of tv resolution then you will go for 4pro for playstation, or Scorpio for Xbox or overall multi plat performance.
both mid gens will give benefits over the standard model at lower res.
whether it's right for you is a personal choice.
4k assets at 1080p, better performance, super sampling, upgraded affects will make a big difference in my view.

some people don't think paying over $200 is worth it for a console.
its nice getting couple options in the console space as far as I'm concerned.

as for 4k and pc, just as easily make the argument that best experience at 720p and 1080p is also with pc.

 

[Jubei]

Not sure if this was posted

http://www.anandtech.com/show/11250/microsofts-project-scorpio-more-hardware-details-revealed

 

[function]

Not sure if this was posted

http://www.anandtech.com/show/11250/microsofts-project-scorpio-more-hardware-details-revealed

They got a few things wrong in their table of Xbox specs. :/

 

[goonergaz]

This is all still pretty pointless with no price - we're still left with so much uncertainty...sure it's a 'no brainer' for XBO owners to upgrade but will be price dependent. Also, for the best version of cross plats games, if you really must have those best versions - again, what price for what upgrade over Pro?

It's a bit like going to a car show room and the salesman showing you a really nice car but not asking what your budget is or what you will use the car for!