Developers Discontent With PS3 Development Tools

[HappyBread]

Listen here buddy, I don't bullshit. If I state something as fact it's because I have ample proof to back it up. I don't succumb to this f@nboy bullshit of pulling shit out of my ass.

Dude!

You're the same idiot on opa-ages who said Epic wasn't able to get UNREAL ENGINE 3 running on the Playstation 3, because it wasn't suited to it. Yet, at E3 Epic blew that little theory of yours to kingdom-come. Your sole intention with this thread was to put the PS3 in bad light, nothing more nothing less. You're a troll, it's as simple as that.

 

[Hardknock]

Sony must be pretty poor in making deals or nVidia just knows how to sell their tech if they to get $5 royalty for a near-of-the-shelf product going by the above impression.

Not so much that Sony is poor at making deals, but PS3 was originally planned to have two Cells and that was it, no GPU. But those plans were scrapped and at the last minute they went with Nvidia. Nvidia not having much time to create an all new GPU from scratch are going to improve on their most recent chip for use in the PS3(similar to what they did with the Xbox GPU.)

 

[Carl B]

Last minute, or summer of 2003? These are the questions...

Link

 

[avaya]

I think people are being a little fool-hearty to believe the PS3 will be more than 30% powerful than a dev kit that has a 2.4GHz Cell and two 6800s in SLi/7800GTX. Keep in mind RSX is based on the 7800 and only has a 10% clock increase. But whatever floats your boat people

G70 stock @ 430Mhz

RSX {claimed} @ 550MHz

Clock on RSX up 28% vs G70.

You haven't even accounted for FlexIO vs. PCI-E either.

 

[Hardknock]

Dude!

You're the same idiot on opa-ages who said Epic wasn't able to get UNREAL ENGINE 3 running on the Playstation 3, because it wasn't suited to it. Yet, at E3 Epic blew that little theory of yours to kingdom-come. Your sole intention with this thread was to put the PS3 in bad light, nothing more nothing less. You're a troll, it's as simple as that.

Wow if you're gonig to quote me, please do it correctly. I stated Unreal Engine 3 would have trouble running on CELL without being highly optimized. Which is a very real and true statement. Not only that, but the Unreal Tournament 2007 demo at E3 only showed the power of the GPU not Cell:

http://ps3.ign.com/articles/615/615178p1.html

I know we'll certainly be able to achieve much more on the final box than we were able to show in our demo after working with the early dev kit for only ~2 months. As Tim mentioned our demo only really showed off the power of RSX and then still we're talk about an RSX that's nowhere near as fast as the final one will be. When we get home from E3 we'll also start diving seriously into the power of the cell processor. This is a very powerful system!

I was not proven either right or wrong when this demo was shown. Anybody with some kind of knowledge about programming would tell you an engine built with more conventional architectures in mind would need to be altered to run on Cell. Carmack has basically stated the same thing.

 

[Jov]

Not so much that Sony is poor at making deals, but PS3 was originally planned to have two Cells and that was it, no GPU[\b]. But those plans were scrapped and at the last minute they went with Nvidia. Nvidia not having much time to create an all new GPU from scratch are going to improve on their most recent chip for use in the PS3(similar to what they did with the Xbox GPU.)

As convincing as it seems from all the patents and without someone from Sony or Tosh confirming this, it’s still speculation at best.

Assuming what you stated was true, do you honestly think Sony will pay that much for something already developed with limited modifications?

Keep mind they would be predicting 100+mil PS3 in its lifetime.

 

[dukmahsik]

G70 stock @ 430Mhz

RSX {claimed} @ 550MHz

Clock on RSX up 28% vs G70.

You haven't even accounted for FlexIO vs. PCI-E either.

minus half the bus of the GTX

 

[scooby_dooby]

Wow if you're gonig to quote me, please do it correctly. I stated Unreal Engine 3 would have trouble running on CELL without being highly optimized. Which is a very real and true statement. .

Considering GOW seems to be completely CPU limited on the X360 on it's single PPE this is a valid statement.

It will run poorly on BOTH systems if not optimized to take advantage of the multithreading capabilities of both CPU's. The CELL will just require MORE optimization since it will be harder.

 

[Hardknock]

Last minute, or summer of 2003? These are the questions...

Link

Negotiating and actually designing the new GPU are completely different my friend.

I have no doubts that they may have been negotiating this from 2003, with Sony not sure if they'd go with their two Cell plan or an outside GPU. From your own article you linked to:

http://money.cnn.com/2003/08/27/commentary/game_over/column_gaming/?cnn=yes

"I would probably characterize it as a less than 50 percent chance that they win PS3," said Michael McConnell of Pacific Crest Securities. "However, we have talked with Sony and their take on it is they're considering an external vendor as well as an internal solution. So you can't rule it out, but you definitely can't say it's a sure thing."

Nothing was decided in 2003 and certainly Nvidia wasn't designing a chip when they weren't sure if Sony would go with them or not. Once Sony had made a decision I think it was too late to design something entirely from scratch. So basically Sony is doing exactly what MS did last gen(even the time frames are similar )

 

[Hardknock]

As convincing as it seems from all the patents and without someone from Sony or Tosh confirming this, it’s still speculation at best.

Assuming what you stated was true, do you honestly think Sony will pay that much for something already developed with limited modifications?

Keep mind they would be predicting 100+mil PS3 in its lifetime.

I may be mistaken, but I'm pretty sure Sony is only paying Nvidia a $5 royalty for each PS3 sold and manufacturing the GPU themselves? They are not spending a high amount at all, and are taking a similar route as Nintendo did with the Gamecube last gen(licensing the GPU tech and manufacturing it themselves.)

 

[Carl B]

Hardknock the truth is we have no idea what happened after those talks between them began. They couldhave begun development right then and there. Just like I don't have anything proving to you that they did, you don't have anything proving to me that they were pursuing a Cell-based solution through until December of 2004. Regardless, if nothing else it shows that Sony was considering this since 2003, and likely making provisions for it's inclusion, just in case. So - I might be willing to believe that the solution is 'off-the-shelf' to one extent or another, but I refuse to believe that on Sony's part the decision ended up being rushed or desperate.

 

[Alpha_Spartan]

Last minute, or summer of 2003? These are the questions...

Link

Not this shit again...

 

[Carl B]

Not this shit again...

Oh yeah Alpha, it's this shit again - fuck yeah. Got something more interesting to say this time than the last time this shit came up? *

* Link for post context

 

[Hardknock]

Hardknock the truth is we have no idea what happened after those talks between them began. They couldhave begun development right then and there. Just like I don't anything proving to you that they did, you don't have anything proving to me that they were pursuing a Cell-based solution through until December of 2004. Regardless, if nothing else it shows that Sony was considering this since 2003, and likely making provisions for it's inclusion, just in case. So - I might be willing to believe that the solution is 'off-the-shelf' to one extent or another, but I refuse to believe that on Sony's part the decision ended up being rushed or desperate.

I thought Nividia has stated themselves that it was based of 7800, but with a higher clock and whatever new processes between now and the PS3s released would be included with it? I'm not saying the RSX isn't going to be powerful, quite the contrary I think it will be a beast! I just don't think it will be all that an original of an architecture(not that that is a bad thing.)

 

[Carl B]

I thought Nividia has stated themselves that it was based of 7800, but with a higher clock and whatever new processes between now and the PS3s released would be included with it? I'm not saying the RSX isn't going to be powerful, quite the contrary I think it will be a beast! I just don't think it will be all that an original of an architecture(not that that is a bad thing.)

No and I'm not saying it's original either. Though it's not based off of the 7800 per se, rather the G70 architecture as a whole. So, many have assumed a G70 adapted to fit the I/O environment of the PS3, but with concurrent development there is still the possibility of something a little more exotic, yet maintaining the basic premise of a G70-based architecture. Again I'm not talking about 'is RSX unique or not' - I think it'll be similar to a GT/GTX - I'm just posting what I am to indicate that nor was it some decision Sony made without being prior aware of their situation and options.

 

[Alpha_Spartan]

Oh yeah Alpha, it's this shit again - fuck yeah. Got something more interesting to say this time than the last time this shit came up?

No, I'll sit out this time. I think everything that's could be said can be said. We'll know the truth soon enough.

 

[MrWibble]

It's too late for that, you've been identified with the rest. Nice men are already on their way over to erase any memories we might have of ever enjoying anything about it.

If there are any PS3 tools I'm discontent with, it's the ones who are posting in this thread.

 

[BTOA]

Dude!

You're the same idiot on opa-ages who said Epic wasn't able to get UNREAL ENGINE 3 running on the Playstation 3, because it wasn't suited to it. Yet, at E3 Epic blew that little theory of yours to kingdom-come. Your sole intention with this thread was to put the PS3 in bad light, nothing more nothing less. You're a troll, it's as simple as that.

He cried on OA when that happened too.

 

[Hardknock]

He cried on OA when that happened too.

Yeah I cried like a baby even though I was correct

Keep em coming

 

[Nite_Hawk]

It's too late for that, you've been identified with the rest. Nice men are already on their way over to erase any memories we might have of ever enjoying anything about it.

... I like developing in eclipse. I like fast dot products and matrix algebra...





Will I like developing for the PS3?

Nite_Hawk