Another Story of PS3 (PS3 A/V articles by Masakazu Honda at PC Watch)

[INKster]

What's loud? Projectors at 25dB are considered silent, but you still can hear 'm. Real HT freaks think that's too loud. I couldn't care less. The 360 occasionally gets irritating though.

Is there a dB rating of the PS3?

29, i think.

 

[Dave Baumann]

I agree that the PS3 should be a screamer in video decoding (Apple should have waited for Cell to use in Macs as opposed to the Intel chipset but oh well), however; I want to know if the X360 has so much trouble doing this... what the hell kind of ASIC is in HD-DVD and Bluray players that allow them to decode as effortlessly as the Cell?

The main issue is where H.264 is concerned is the CABAC entropy encoding scheme - its not particularly nice. I'm not sure whether Toshiba have changed, or what Samsungs BRD play was based on, but the early Tosh's were basically PC's with Intel CPU's, except the code was presumably highly geared to running these types of decode processes. As time goes on, you'll probably see more solutions such as this go into consumer devices that are specifically designed for this function.

 

[pipo]

29, i think.

That's good! And completely silent compared to the 360.

 

[one]

The main issue is where H.264 is concerned is the CABAC entropy encoding scheme - its not particularly nice. I'm not sure whether Toshiba have changed, or what Samsungs BRD play was based on, but the early Tosh's were basically PC's with Intel CPU's, except the code was presumably highly geared to running these types of decode processes. As time goes on, you'll probably see more solutions such as this go into consumer devices that are specifically designed for this function.

Well...

http://www.broadcom.com/press/release.php?id=801423

Broadcom Powers Toshiba's HD-DVD Players with a High-Performance HD Video Decoder Chip
Toshiba First to Announce HD-DVD Players

LAS VEGAS, 2006 International CES, Jan 06, 2006 /PRNewswire-FirstCall via COMTEX News Network/ -- Broadcom Corporation (Nasdaq: BRCM), a global leader in wired and wireless broadband communications semiconductors, today announced that Toshiba's recently announced (HD-XA1 and HD-A1) HD-DVD players use Broadcom's high definition audio/video decoder chip. This high-speed multi-codec decoder chip enables Toshiba's box to decode and output compressed content from an HD-DVD formatted disc.

Toshiba is the first manufacturer to announce a DVD player based on the HD-DVD formatted disc standard, which offers significantly more storage capacity than today's DVD standard. The HD-DVD standard was developed by the DVD forum, which represents over 230 consumer electronics, information technology and content companies. Capabilities enabled by the new standard include higher resolution video and audio available on a suite of disc capacities adaptable for longer and shorter programs, as well as advanced navigation tools, web connectivity and new consumer options.

The Toshiba (HD-XA1 and HD-A1) HD-DVD players incorporate the Broadcom® BCM7411D, which is an HD A/V decoder chip compatible with the HD-DVD standard. The BCM7411D supports the new H.264 and VC-1 compression standards, which are the mandatory compression standards for HD-DVD. The BCM7411D also supports the MPEG-2 compression standard for current DVD players, enabling Toshiba's new HD-DVD players to support HD-DVD discs while continuing to play existing DVD discs.

"The HD-DVD standard mandates very high speed multi-codec decoder functionality, which is something we've been focusing on for the last several years," said Peter Besen, Broadcom's Vice President of Consumer Electronics. "We have been working closely with Toshiba to insure that the BCM7411D meets the performance and compliance requirements of HD-DVD and are very proud to have been chosen for Toshiba's groundbreaking new product."

http://www.broadcom.com/products/Co...dio-Video-Graphics-System-Processors/BCM7411D

BCM7411D
AVC/MPEG High-Definition Decoder for Blu-rayâ„¢ and HD DVDs

The BCM7411 introduces the advantages of the H.264 video compression algorithm to today's advanced consumer and broadcast applications. The BCM7411 is a dual-channel AVC/MPEG-2 decoder chip capable of full HD realtime decoding.

Broadcom's H.264 Compression Advantageâ„¢ architecture provides three times the compression power of MPEG-2. Systems incorporating the BCM7411 have superior image quality, improved system performance, and larger storage capacity with the reduced bit rates of H.264 - also known as MPEG-4 Advanced Video Coding (AVC). The BCM7411 fully supports the MPEG-2 standard, so that compatibility with existing media can be maintained.

 

[LJR]

Sorry to drag up an old post but can someone explain to me why the PS3 is converting SACD DSD streams into PCM streams? Wouldn't this result in the loss of some definition? I know that HDMI 1.3 supports DSD natively and so I can't quite understand why they chose to do this and how much it affects the resulting audio.

 

[Gubbi]

How many people can afford audio setups that make the benefits of SACD even audible?!

Even if you could afford it, you probably couldn't hear the difference.

The primary reason people buy SACDs is becaused they are supposed to sell to the audio-phile segment and therefore haven't been ruined by amplitude compression the way normal CDs are.

Cheers

 

[Gubbi]

Sorry to drag up an old post but can someone explain to me why the PS3 is converting SACD DSD streams into PCM streams? Wouldn't this result in the loss of some definition? I know that HDMI 1.3 supports DSD natively and so I can't quite understand why they chose to do this and how much it affects the resulting audio.

It's an advantage if your receiver only understands PCM. It's the same when you choose if your DVD player should output PCM or the raw audio bit-stream (Dolby, DTS etc) on you SP/DIF or HDMI connection.

As for quality. With 16bit 44.1KHz PCM we're already at diminishing returns, not to mention HDMI can output 24bit PCM. On top of that, SACDs are delta-sigma modulated, not pulse code modulated.

This means that their signal-to-noise ratio falls with increasing frequency whereas 16Bit PCM is 96dB SNR througout the frequency band. So while SACD might have 160dB SNR @ 20Hz (with the proper noise shaping reconstruction filters), it's likely to be around 90dB @ 20KHz, about equal to regular CDs. In the frequncy band where human hearing is the most acute, 300Hz-3KHz, SACD normally has ~110-120 dB SNR, which really isn't that much better than regular CDs.

The main reason why SACDs sounds so much better than regular CDs on the proper equipment has more to do with production/mastering than the technical merits of the format.

Cheers

 

[LJR]

Thank you. Very informative reply and I had no idea the the SNR fell away in DSD as the frequency became higher. It still seems like SACD has a marginally better SNR at the typical human ear frequencies.

In short though, and reading between the lines of what you are saying here, there's really little deficit to having the SACD audio in PCM format?

 

[Gubbi]

In short though, and reading between the lines of what you are saying here, there's really little deficit to having the SACD audio in PCM format?

Exactly (but all IMO). I can hear no difference switching between the CD and SACD layers on hybrid SACDs.

Cheers