Destiny [PS3,X360,PS4,XO]

[shredenvain]

But this is what the community wanted. They complained bitterly and loudly because they lost the grind investment in old guns in TDB.

It's important to understand Bungie just gave players what they said they wanted. The players just aren't always smart enough to understand the repercussions even when they should be obvious. It should have been obvious Fatebringer and Gjallahorn are going to trump anything new that comes along. I was posting about that problem months ago. The only solution is "here's you new hand cannon thats even better than Fatebringer!". Except then if you keep moving the bar up PVE balance is gone, that is untenable.

And yeah, Bungie does seem to be nerfing new guns you are right. It could be that was before they decided to allow ascending old gear. But it's obviously for balance reasons, Bungie must think Field Scout for example was overpowered in a sense.

It's kind of weird in many ways things are way overpowered, the burns, Gjallahorn, reforging allowing the best perks on every gun (now that I think about it that's probably exactly why Bungie is nerfing these perks), Felwinters Lie, Thorn...yet OTOH Bungie appears to be trying to sneak nerf many classes of weapons.

What they need to do is come up with other things besides the elements to make the new guns provide a service that you just can't always get from a raid elemental. They could create new enemies that have other challenges aside from a colored force field.
That way the old raid weapons could stand with the new raid weapons as equally important for completely different situations and enemies. It doesn't appear that these new "Taken" enemies have elemental shields. Hell they could even add new elemental types to the shields. The new armor has perks that can negate the damage taken from arc weapons which in turns effects the amount of damage you put out from arc attacks. The best solution for everyone would be for the new raid weapons to actually make the player want to use them over their old stand by weapons.

 

[Rangers]

What they need to do is come up with other things besides the elements to make the new guns provide a service that you just can't always get from a raid elemental. They could create new enemies that have other challenges aside from a colored force field.
That way the old raid weapons could stand with the new raid weapons as equally important for completely different situations and enemies. It doesn't appear that these new "Taken" enemies have elemental shields. Hell they could even add new elemental types to the shields. The new armor has perks that can negate the damage taken from arc weapons which in turns effects the amount of damage you put out from arc attacks. The best solution for everyone would be for the new raid weapons to actually make the player want to use them over their old stand by weapons.

That's effectively obsoleting the older ones anyway though. Even if it's not done through an attack rating. So the same complaint about wasted grind would apply. No matter how you get to "you will want the new guns and not the old ones" it's the same effect, the flip statement is "the old guns are not worth using anymore". Which is what people had complaints about.

Like I said, I think one possibility is reduce the XP required to fully upgrade gear by 20, 30% or something. The grind is still there but having to "waste" it later wont be quite as big a blow? It's a thought.

You'd think this would all be settled best practices now from years of WoW, and I have a feeling it was, except that people like to complain about Destiny a lot more. Other games can get away with doing things Destiny cant and people wont bitch at the other games, but Destiny cannot. From what I gather Destiny basically just did what WoW did (WoW was much worse actually) but people just wont accept it in Destiny because it's Destiny. in WoW and every other MMO it was OK because the name on the game is different.

From what I understand WoW just obsoleted old gear, and people had 10X as much time invested in it as Destiny gear, and they just did it, because other games can do that. Destiny people will go crazy complaining about anything. So I think that's what happened with the whole ascending old gear thing. Bungie was just like "Ok we'll handle this like every other MMO" and then there was this huge backlash, they backtracked, and here we are.

 

[shredenvain]

sweet moves that probably come with TKK

or at least i hoped...

about new weapon sux. they are sux simply because they dont have element. I keep getting new HoW weapons and i mindlessly sharded them. they only do kinetic damage. what its useful for...

You only get elemental prison of elders weapons from killing skolas on lvl 35.
Even then the Scout rifle the wolves leash is a joke. It has an incredibly low impact. It takes 2 headshots to kill a lvl 2 vandal in the cosmodrome. The Six dregg pride is actually a very good hand cannon even without elemental damage. It has almost the exact same stats as fatebringer minus firefly. The weapons dropping a random elements is one of the problems. If the Six dregg pride dropped at a decent rate from beating skolas and came with Solar damage only with the perk that stuns fallen captains it would be a lot more sought after. That is just it though. The weapon barely ever drops! You don't even have armor or weapon drops from each round in PoE like it should be. There isn't even any Queens armor in the house of wolves. The PoE armor has forced strength for every piece he sells the first month. Bungie are doing all this on purpose. They want longevity out of the HoW as well as trying to keep you from filling up the super small vault they supply us with. They really screwed up the House of wolves loot.
Hell there are still 2 exotic scout rifles that are supposed to be in the game that no one has even seen. The fate of all fools and the 347 Vesta dynasty. They even released press shots the week before release showing guardians using these weapons. So I'm saying I guess that the old raid gear isn't the problem. The problem is the super disappointing high level loot in the doc that is almost impossible to obtain in the first place. The new taken king weapons look like a step in the right direction cosmetically, but dear god Bungie please make the guns actually use able!

 

[shredenvain]

That's effectively obsoleting the older ones anyway though. Even if it's not done through an attack rating. So the same complaint about wasted grind would apply. No matter how you get to "you will want the new guns and not the old ones" it's the same effect, the flip statement is "the old guns are not worth using anymore". Which is what people had complaints about.

Like I said, I think one possibility is reduce the XP required to fully upgrade weapons by 20, 30% or something. The grind is still there but having to "waste" it later wont be quite as big a blow? It's a thought.

No that isn't at all how it would work.
They aren't getting rid of arc or solar shields. They will still exist in all the current content they exist in now. You know 3 weeks into the taken king, the devils lair is going to come up as a nightfall. Hell omnigul too. Fatebringer is perfect for omnigul because of all the knights with arc shields. The thing is though the omnigul nightfall won't be lvl 32 after the taken king drops. It could be lvl 45! So raid weapons won't be cast aside for this reason. Hell cabal and fallen majors are still gonna have damn shields. So if Bungie makes the new end game loot have perks or damage types specific to the new enemies we get in the taken king all raid weapons will be equally useful.
Does that not make perfect sense?

 

[shredenvain]

The situation could be something like we have now with kinetic weapons on enemies with elemental shields. You can use a badger ccl to take out a lvl 30 fallen captain with an arc shield, but it is going to take several more rounds to break through the shield. So let's say the taken enemies get new shield types in the end game activities. You can use a Fatebringer to kill them if you want but its going to take a lot more ammo because of these new shields. So let's say you get new weapons with damage types specifically made to take down these new shields. The vendor weapons or engram weapons will have special and heavy weapons that can take these shields down quicker. Then the raid will supply you with primary weapons that have these new damage types. Now if the nightfall is a new strike with taken enemies you will have a weapon that fills the spot that fang of ir yut did. You could still have normal enemies in these strikes with the old standard elemental shields that your old raid weapons can take out quickly, but the new enemies will require you to switch to newer weapons. It is the only reasonable solution to the issue we have now. Even if the new weapons don't have field scout or firefly you will still use them because they serve a specific purpose that older weapons don't.

 

[orangpelupa]

but older weapon have multi purpose perk. Efidret with its final bullet. Black ham with its free ammo for crits.

How weapon only usefull for fallen or even worse, its locked the effect to PoE.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

It just seems a bit odd. Current owners will pay $40USD for the expansion, but if they want the CE stuff, it's an extra $40USD for the following:

• Three Class Specific Emotes
• Three Armor Shaders
• Three Exotic Class Items with XP Bonuses

The digital CE is priced the same as the retail CE, but the retail CE also includes a bunch of physical collector's items.

:s

I think the pricing is nonsense*, but I'm still struggling to understand the core difference between this and GOTY editions. Someone buying the latest version and getting to original at a better price is normal. The Collector's Edition is fleecing garbage like all collectors editions. The download one being the same price as the better value physical one is digital distribution all over. Apart from big dollar values and dickish PR, it looks the same behaviour as everyone else to me.

* That's free-market capitalism! If people buy it, the price is justified.

 

[orangpelupa]

there should 2 collectors edition.

A. is the current version
B. is just like the current version but instead Vanilla+TDB+HoW+TKK. It have digital TKK+Expansion pass

 

[Rangers]

The situation could be something like we have now with kinetic weapons on enemies with elemental shields. You can use a badger ccl to take out a lvl 30 fallen captain with an arc shield, but it is going to take several more rounds to break through the shield. So let's say the taken enemies get new shield types in the end game activities. You can use a Fatebringer to kill them if you want but its going to take a lot more ammo because of these new shields. So let's say you get new weapons with damage types specifically made to take down these new shields. The vendor weapons or engram weapons will have special and heavy weapons that can take these shields down quicker. Then the raid will supply you with primary weapons that have these new damage types. Now if the nightfall is a new strike with taken enemies you will have a weapon that fills the spot that fang of ir yut did. You could still have normal enemies in these strikes with the old standard elemental shields that your old raid weapons can take out quickly, but the new enemies will require you to switch to newer weapons. It is the only reasonable solution to the issue we have now. Even if the new weapons don't have field scout or firefly you will still use them because they serve a specific purpose that older weapons don't.

They are kind of moving that way anyway. Hence why the POE guns/gear all have Fallen/POE themed bonuses. That's exactly what youre talking about, already in HoW?

I dont see it as a permanent solution, it will work once...unless you want us to just abandon each set of guns that is for then-current endgame when a new endgame comes along, keeping our VoG stuff just for nightfalls.

I think they are just going to have to leave behind year 1 guns. No way around it. I just think they should reduce the grind to level guns a decent amount.

Anyways I had not got celestial nighthawk til now, now I got it in 32 POE chest then an hour later in 34 POE chest as well LOL. Still nice though. More cool stuff to upgrade.

 

[shredenvain]

They are kind of moving that way anyway. Hence why the POE guns/gear all have Fallen/POE themed bonuses. That's exactly what youre talking about, already in HoW?

I dont see it as a permanent solution, it will work once...unless you want us to just abandon each set of guns that is for then-current endgame when a new endgame comes along, keeping our VoG stuff just for nightfalls.

I think they are just going to have to leave behind year 1 guns. No way around it. I just think they should reduce the grind to level guns a decent amount.

Anyways I had not got celestial nighthawk til now, now I got it in 32 POE chest then an hour later in 34 POE chest as well LOL. Still nice though. More cool stuff to upgrade.

Congrats on the celestial nighthawk.
I still don't have one.
I'm still not sure your getting what I mean about making the old and new weapons relevant together. Leaving behind year one guns is not a solution.
It will only cause all year one content to become completely irrelevant. Also the PoE weapons don't fill the shoes of the scenerio I laid out in my other posts.
They don't have damage types specifically for new shield types. They have shank burn or suppress captains abilities. The only way to leave year one raid weapons behind is to make entirely new loot tables for the vault of glass and Crotas end. We both know that won't happen. So leaving raid weapons behind is no solution at all. As far as WoW goes I have never played it, but if they left all early weapons behind what incentive did players have to go back and play earlier content?(in WoW)
Also what about new players?

 

[RancidLunchmeat]

I think this Red Bull promotion is awesome.

http://imgur.com/a/mhSNp

 

[Scott_Arm]

I would say if you really have to ask if you should buy the expansion by now Destiny is not for you. So dont come back complaining after you buy it

I was really happy with the base game. The story was kind of junk, but the campaign and strikes were a lot of fun. I definitely got my money's worth. My experience with the DLC was the exact opposite. So it's 50/50 whether I'll get the quality of the campaign vs the dlc.

 

[eastmen]

wow so they are selling emotes for $20 now ?

 

[BRiT]

I think this Red Bull promotion is awesome.

http://imgur.com/a/mhSNp

http://www.engadget.com/2015/06/24/bungie-destiny-red-bull-dlc

"In simple terms, Destiny is getting a brand-new quest. The bad news is that you need to buy "specially marked" cans of the popular energy drink to get it. They'll even include bonus XP, helping you rank your Hunter, Titan or Warlock ahead of the quest's launch on September 18th (three days after The Taken King). If you're not interested in pumping your body full of taurine, you'll need to wait until January 1st, 2016 to play it.

So while players are still frustrated at the in-game upgrades, Bungie and Activision are now restricting content depending on whether you enjoy Red Bull. Let's not forget, this could be any food or drink brand -- it's the terms that will leave a sour taste in people's mouths. At least with DLC, you just pay for the download and get on with it."

 

[orangpelupa]

i wonder, this is their original plan or Activision became money hungry after Destiny got delayed a year and the development cost goes blown up?

does stuff like this mentioned in the destiny contract? that thing is very long to read :/

 

[NRP]

Bungie seems like a completely different company from what they were even a few years ago.

 

[Rangers]

Got my PVP K/D up to a whopping .3.

I can definitely see improvement, for example my last clash game was one of my best I had 9 kills 13 deaths, wasn't too much drag on the team and almost competent.

I feel like my continuing K/D could be/is already .5-.8 pretty easily. That "just below average, competent" area is probably my PVP ceiling short investing a lot of time and effort.

I saw a lot of improvement switching from Vex to Red Death. Red Death is way better, I could feel instant massive improvement in my kill potential. I dont have Thorn. I do have Last Word but when I tried it for a minute I hated it. I imagine I'll try it again sometime.

I feel like Red Death is probably 2nd best or so to Thorn anyway. Short Thorn I doubt I can do much better for a primary. So that's fairly settled.

For shotgun according to the vids I've watched Party Crasher+1 is the best PVP shotgun, better than Lie and Matador (just a little less impact but better other stats, all have max range). That shouldn't be too hard to acquire just wait for it to drop. In the meanwhile I use Found Verdict which I think is fine.

I guess for a rocket launcher I need proximity and tripod, plus some velocity stuff I suppose ideally. That shouldn't be too hard to roll. Unlike for shotgun with the party crasher I dont have an exact one in mind yet. For now I just use my Admonisher or Dreamwaker, 1 in the tube and tracking. I'm sure they're not the best but I suck anyway not like it matters, I rarely get/last long with heavy ammo anyway. I guess I could at least put on my Hezen Vengeance I think it's tripod.

I looked at Gothalion's PVP bladedancer build today, I think everybody uses arc bolt grenades and he uses Lucky Raspberry to chain them farther. I think I have one of those in my vault about to check. If not it's another thing I'll target to acquire. Then his armor was all int/disc. I guess since you can use any armor this shouldn't be too hard to cobble together, I have lots of spare armor. To go a little deeper I'll probably want faster reload with pulse rifles somewhere.

 

[NRP]

I'm surprised pulse rifles are a thing in PvP. Were they buffed? They sure sucked ass in PvE last time I played (~1.5 months ago). Never tried Red Death though.

 

[djskribbles]

They were buffed. They are used more than auto rifles now. Red Death and The Messenger are the most popular in crucible and are very similar (high impact, slow firing). The Messenger is arguably a bit better because it has head seeker vs Red Death and its healing ability. I believe both have the potential for a 2 burst kill in PVP.

The weapons you choose to use in PVP depends on your play-style. Some may prefer Red Death, some may prefer Vex. But the most popular weapons are the ones I mentioned a few pages back (forgot to mention Red Death, but it is again very similar to The Messenger).
For my play-style, my preference is: Hawkmoon/Thorn > The Messenger/Red Death > The Last Word > Vex Mythoclast. However some people I play with would put TLW or even Vex at the top of their list.

As for shotguns, Party Crasher is perhaps the best all around shotgun mostly because of its considerably higher fire rate which is good for those moments you miss and/or encounter multiple enemies. But in certain modes (such as skirmish or trials) a higher impact shotgun may be preferred for that higher 1 shot kill potential.

And don't expect Party Crasher to drop frequently. I mean it does drop often, but I STILL don't have one, yet I've received 4 Matador shotguns. For my buddy,it's the opposite... he keeps getting Party Crasher but not many (if any?) Matadors. I'm not stressing it too much, because they are all very close in performance.

 

[NRP]

I saw in your Trials vid a while back you shotgun then quickly melee. That was the tactic in previous Halo games to ensure a quick kill in case there was lag or something. Would that negate the slight impact advantage of the best shotguns? In Halo, you would really only use a shotty at point blank range anyway.

I got a Thorn bounty. I guess it's worth the trouble?