Destiny [PS3,X360,PS4,XO]

[djskribbles]

I always melee after shotgun in case they don't go down. It's very common in Destiny too.
It can possibly make up for the lack of impact. But most people use shotguns in crucible, so if you don't kill them, there's a good possibility that they will kill you before you can get your melee off.

That said, the differences in impact between the 3 heavy hitters (felwinter, matador, party crasher) is minimal. But if I had all 3, I would take Matador into Trials/Skirmish/Rumble/Salvage and Party Crasher into everything else. Matador is essentially a mixture of Party Crasher and Felwinter. I believe the impact is the same as Felwinter, but the fire rate is in between the two. Felwinter has the advantage of having 6 bullets vs 5 in the other two.

Again, you can't go wrong with any of them. I would even consider Judgement VI a top tier shotgun. And Found Verdict isn't too far behind either.

And yes, the Thorn bounty is worth the trouble if you want a top tier PVP weapon.

 

[Rangers]

Thorn is the defacto gun everybody screams is overpowered and whines that everybody just uses Thorn...and why is Bungie so stupid and doesn't redo balance and Thorn is killing crucible yadda yadda.

As I understand, it's often a 2 shot kill, with the DOT. And of course the difference between a 3 and 2 shot kill is huge, and I dont think much can do 2 shot kill. Last Word can only sometimes because of a supposed bug, the gun thinks you are hip firing sometimes when you are not and it has the do more damage when hip firing perk. I'd hate to rely on a bug Bungie may fix anytime though.

When I stepped into TOO for a second Thorn is ubiquitous. And I think the hardest content is where the good stuff is really undoubtedly proved. Just like in PVE, I can use various load outs with success, but when I do POE 35 is where I really realize what the good stuff is and cut the marginal stuff that can get by in a Nightfall or POE 32/34. So in casual normal Crucible people will lighten up and not just use Thorn all the time, maybe just 1/4 of people will be using it, but TOO proves for sure it's overpowered as it seems more like 80% or something using it in TOO.

 

[shredenvain]

Thorn is the defacto gun everybody screams is overpowered and whines that everybody just uses Thorn...and why is Bungie so stupid and doesn't redo balance and Thorn is killing crucible yadda yadda.

As I understand, it's often a 2 shot kill, with the DOT. And of course the difference between a 3 and 2 shot kill is huge, and I dont think much can do 2 shot kill. Last Word can only sometimes because of a supposed bug, the gun thinks you are hip firing sometimes when you are not and it has the do more damage when hip firing perk. I'd hate to rely on a bug Bungie may fix anytime though.

When I stepped into TOO for a second Thorn is ubiquitous. And I think the hardest content is where the good stuff is really undoubtedly proved. Just like in PVE, I can use various load outs with success, but when I do POE 35 is where I really realize what the good stuff is and cut the marginal stuff that can get by in a Nightfall or POE 32/34. So in casual normal Crucible people will lighten up and not just use Thorn all the time, maybe just 1/4 of people will be using it, but TOO proves for sure it's overpowered as it seems more like 80% or something using it in TOO.

Thorn has to hit head shots to kill you in 2 hits. I don't own a thorn yet, but I am half way thru the crucible part of the bounty on my warlock. Thorn is powerful, but it isn't any more powerful than Red Death. Red death is my go to crucible gun and it is the perfect gun to go against thorn. I get shot quite a lot by thorn in crucible, but I don't get killed by it a lot. If your screen turns green run. Thorn doesn't need a nerf to damage or poison. It needs to have its range nerfed only. Guns and how OP they are is the least of the problems in crucible. The problem in Iron banner and Trials that needs to be addressed is lag switching and DDOS attacks.
Auto rifles need a buff like yesterday!!!
I'm not a huge fan of them, but a buff would help cut down on the amount of 2 burst pulse rifles and 2-3 hit hand cannon users.

 

[orangpelupa]

the weird thing is, Destiny used to be more balanced with Fusion Rifle, Vex Mytho, Auto Rifle, Handgun BEFORE they "balance" it by nerfing Fusion Rifle, Vex Mytho, Auto Rifle.

now everybody just use Shotgun, Handgun, and ocasionally scout rifles.

Before the "balancing", crucible is more colorful with people use vex mythoclast etc.

frankly bungie's balancing is totally weird. Fusion rifle is longer range than shotgun but balanced with slow charge time. THEN they nerf its range.

WHAT THE...

Vex Mytho is vex mytho. now they nerf it into nerf-gun.

They also keep boosting Titan and Warlock's killing ability (nothing menacles, shoulder charge boots). While hunter is left alone in oblivion.

seriously, hunter is the only class with wimpy melee. Warlock and titan can 1 melee hit kill you.

 

[djskribbles]

Thorn has to hit head shots to kill you in 2 hits. I don't own a thorn yet, but I am half way thru the crucible part of the bounty on my warlock. Thorn is powerful, but it isn't any more powerful than Red Death. Red death is my go to crucible gun and it is the perfect gun to go against thorn. I get shot quite a lot by thorn in crucible, but I don't get killed by it a lot. If your screen turns green run. Thorn doesn't need a nerf to damage or poison. It needs to have its range nerfed only. Guns and how OP they are is the least of the problems in crucible. The problem in Iron banner and Trials that needs to be addressed is lag switching and DDOS attacks.
Auto rifles need a buff like yesterday!!!
I'm not a huge fan of them, but a buff would help cut down on the amount of 2 burst pulse rifles and 2-3 hit hand cannon users.

Correct, Thorn has to be 2 head shots... a guaranteed 2 shot kill. Hawkmoon also has 2 shot kill potential, but you need the lucky bullets in your shots. Hawkmoon also has lower aim assistance than Thorn. Red Death and The Messenger also have 2 burst kill potential but it's harder to achieve compared to Thorn since you basically need all of your shots to hit the target. As someone who has spent quite a bit of time in crucible, Thorn IS a bit overpowered IMO and needs to be nerfed.

The weapons that generally give me the most trouble are Thorn > Hawkmoon/TLW (depending on distance) > The Messenger/Vex (depending on distance) > Red Death. Unless I'm playing a very skilled player, I can usually easily beat Red Death with my Hawkmoon or Thorn.

They also keep boosting Titan and Warlock's killing ability (nothing menacles, shoulder charge boots). While hunter is left alone in oblivion.

seriously, hunter is the only class with wimpy melee. Warlock and titan can 1 melee hit kill you.

Yeah hunters don't have the greatest melee (Titan isn't much better). But they're arguably the best class for PVP because of their super abilities and agility.

The hunter's newer exotics seem to be more useful for PVE, but their old exotics helped a lot for PVP. Lucky Raspberry, Mask of the third man, Symbiote, Knucklehead and Lupi are all great exotics for PVP.

Out of the new exotics, the only one that I would consider to be a bit OP is the ram helmet for the warlock, which boosts armor and causes energy drain effect with any melee hit. PlanetDestiny doesn't seem to think that it's very useful in PVP, but I disagree. The extra armor and life steal from any melee hit is better than they think.

 

[orangpelupa]

The RAM is always the problem. The RAM in old console, The Ram exotic....

 

[Rangers]

Yeah I see that obnoxious Ram Helm all the time in crucible. I knew obviously something was up with it.

Yeah hunters don't have the greatest melee (Titan isn't much better). But they're arguably the best class for PVP because of their super abilities and agility.

Yeah the other classes are "arguably" best too You would claim hunters are OP.

6th skolas clear, took 3 hours. That's starting on skolas too. That's actually probably not bad. And we almost had it way sooner. No elemental primary. Still.

It's best to just burn him down when the 2nd mines trigger. So really the only difficult part is the 1st set of mines (but of course we died 1k times on dumb stuff anyway). People will keep getting better strategies...

I met this guy who probably plays more than Skribbles, I mean damn. Guy had over 1k motes of light or something for example. And the type who buys armor for like a 2 point better roll than what he has. Was saying he does every raid every week. Look at this monster http://i.imgur.com/8f1h3op.png

 

[djskribbles]

Or maybe you're just not killing the hunters and they're getting all the kills.

Most of the good crucible players I play with prefer the hunter for PVP. I myself slightly prefer the warlock, but my hunter is a close second.

 

[Rangers]

Ehh, very shortly after (like 10 minutes) I got the achievement for 100 kills of hunters. Even though Bungie and Destiny tracker both say I only have 177 kills total or something. I dunno, maybe they dont count certain gametypes or something? Game is weird. Like I saw that kills in POE and raid dont count towards grimoire and stuff. So dumb. Also I just checked one of my clash games just looking at the 12 players, and actually all classes seemed represented fairly equally. Actually it seems so in general which says a lot about Bungies balancing because that's a lot of delicate stuff to balance yet it seems they mostly did without major changes to any class powers which means they sort of got it right in a vacuum (EG before millions were really testing the game in the real world).

Also on my grimoire/tracking sites it shows I have a few kills with a Titan (actually I think like 3k in PVE?), both PVE and PVE, even though I almost 1000% certain I never have used anything but a hunter in this game. The only MINISCULE possibility is I played a Titan back in the beta or something and forgot about it? But I really dont think so. Maybe it's another bug and some of my hunter play got counted as a Titan.

 

[djskribbles]

Just look at the crucible leader boards... they're filled with hunters. 139/200 to be exact (thank you find on page in chrome).

http://destinytracker.com/destiny/leaderboards/ps
http://destinytracker.com/destiny/leaderboards/xbox

 

[orangpelupa]

nah, ill just knee people in the stomach

 

[Rangers]

Just look at the crucible leader boards... they're filled with hunters. 139/200 to be exact (thank you find on page in chrome).

http://destinytracker.com/destiny/leaderboards/ps
http://destinytracker.com/destiny/leaderboards/xbox

Well that's definitely hard evidence. Although there is a Warlock on top of the Xbox charts.

 

[shredenvain]

I mainly play with PvP with my hunter.
I am definitely no blink shotgunner.
I have been using my warlock a lot lately to complete the Thorn bounty. By the way the Ram is the sh!t. I'm sorry I love it especially in Pve. I love taking my life back from enemies!

 

[Rangers]

Had by far my best clash game ever...13 kills 9 deaths. that also topped my previous record of 9 kills in a match.

Followed it up a couple games later with a 1 kill 14 death masterpiece Granted the other team seemed better than usual.

Not sure but I think Crucible levels up your armor faster than anything. Well, if you were doing dense/quick bounties and the daily and stuff like that in PVE it might be comparable/faster...

The thing is so much of PVE that I do doesn't even count towards XP. POE/Raids. Just the weekly/nightfall will. In crucible it's always counting. Plus you get bounties on top of that. I really suck and am still working towards a few crucible bounties already. A good player would be cleaning up bounties too.

Got my 150 Crucible marks and bought Exodus Plan R1 or whatever it's called. Tripod and proximity, seems like a good PVP roll as is so I'll probably just keep it stock. Now I have to get another one and roll tracking and arc. And maybe after that 2 more, solar and void. Just because it has two in the mag and my current solar/void legendary launchers with tracking only hold 1 in the tube. Anyways crucible is pretty fun anyway. Although by the time I do weekly/nightfall/POE32/POE34 on all 3 characters, AND try to squeeze in some POE35 and possibly bounties and all that, time gets short for crucible. Plus I need to finish off ghost hunting too for grimoire.

From reading up it seems the stock vendor Exodus Plan is a "perfectly fine" PVP launcher. Yeah if you are a PVP beast you'll want better, but it probably will never matter enough at my level to expend the resources.

Cant stress enough how much I like Red Death in PVP. Thing is a beast. I'm wondering if all these Thorn users are just wrong. I feel like Red Death may flat out be better. Guaranteed 2 burst (headshot) kill?

 

[orangpelupa]

too bad i cant bot the crucible. it seems a minimun hit per minute is needed to fool bungie

 

[shredenvain]

Had by far my best clash game ever...13 kills 9 deaths. that also topped my previous record of 9 kills in a match.

Followed it up a couple games later with a 1 kill 14 death masterpiece Granted the other team seemed better than usual.

Not sure but I think Crucible levels up your armor faster than anything. Well, if you were doing dense/quick bounties and the daily and stuff like that in PVE it might be comparable/faster...

The thing is so much of PVE that I do doesn't even count towards XP. POE/Raids. Just the weekly/nightfall will. In crucible it's always counting. Plus you get bounties on top of that. I really suck and am still working towards a few crucible bounties already. A good player would be cleaning up bounties too.

Got my 150 Crucible marks and bought Exodus Plan R1 or whatever it's called. Tripod and proximity, seems like a good PVP roll as is so I'll probably just keep it stock. Now I have to get another one and roll tracking and arc. And maybe after that 2 more, solar and void. Just because it has two in the mag and my current solar/void legendary launchers with tracking only hold 1 in the tube. Anyways crucible is pretty fun anyway. Although by the time I do weekly/nightfall/POE32/POE34 on all 3 characters, AND try to squeeze in some POE35 and possibly bounties and all that, time gets short for crucible. Plus I need to finish off ghost hunting too for grimoire.

From reading up it seems the stock vendor Exodus Plan is a "perfectly fine" PVP launcher. Yeah if you are a PVP beast you'll want better, but it probably will never matter enough at my level to expend the resources.

Cant stress enough how much I like Red Death in PVP. Thing is a beast. I'm wondering if all these Thorn users are just wrong. I feel like Red Death may flat out be better. Guaranteed 2 burst (headshot) kill?

Red death is better than thorn any day in my opinion. I got mine a few months back from the gorgon chest in vault.

Also I prefer Heavy Machine guns over launchers for PvP. Sure a well placed rocket can clear can entire team of enemies if you are lucky, but a good machine gun like Against all odds comes with a full clip of at least 26 rounds and double that in reserve from one heavy ammo pickup. This gun will single headshot all enemies except a titan with an over shield. As long as you can live thru each enemies few rounds of rockets you can spend the rest of the match killing with scout rifle like precision.

 

[djskribbles]

Ultimately use whatever you play best with. But there's a reason why so many people complain about Thorn and why so many people use it.

 

[Rangers]

Just had my best crucible game ever! 15-8, ended on a 5 kill streak, dealt the final blow. Granted the other team sucked, still.

Also fulfilled my first crucible bounty that I can recall offhand. The kill 25 hunters one. Granted again I dont usually even take crucible bounties with me, my slots are usually pretty full of PVE and special bounties.

Tweaked my Red Death a little, put high caliber rounds instead of snapshot because I guess this shakes the enemies screen a lot, and put on aggressive ballistics.

It's so encouraging and makes me feel better about my PVE skills to see improvement in crucible.

My destinytracker daily k/d chart

Probably a little misleading because 7/1 k/d is .93 I think due to a few good games. Honestly my true K/D floor is probably about .4 right now. When I play some more later todays K/D will go down.

Cumulative total K/D up to a whopping .38 (well, going by Destinytracker which for whatever reason did not necessarily match my achievements)...baby steps.

 

[orangpelupa]

i think i need to wait for destiny to come to PC or support KB+M to enjoy crucible. Getting accustomed to the auto aim is really hard. The only weapon i really accustomed is only VoC.

worst offender on sniper rifle. The auto aim is really over the top. Throwing knife auto aim also crazy sticky. As long as you triggered the auto aim, its sure headshot. Too bad it is super weak (need 2 knife to kill).

i tried to learn to use shotgun and kind of get the hang of the auto aim. But still not comfortable. Basically all this time i was wrong in using shotgun. Its designed for quick aiming. Quick aim and let the auto aim lock it to enemy. Dont add correction. Just aim, blam!.

luckily there's titan. I can simple melee everyone to death
it have crazy damage, it have crazy range.

 

[Rangers]

7th Skolas clear, STILL not one single elemental primary. With my luck when I do get one it'll be a solar scout (already have 3 Voc's) or a Arc Six Dreg (already have FB, generally dont like it). Guy with me got a void pulse, that's pretty much EXACTLY what I want (well, void scout first).

At least this time was by far the easiest since they dropped burns. The new Fallen armor helps tremendously. And people are improving. I feel a decent chance to do it 2X more this week without huge trouble.

Got Matador 64 and Party Crasher in crucible. Kind of confused though, my Found Verdict seems to have decidedly superior stats to these guns, yet nobody ever talks about it as a PVP great. It may have a tiny bit less impact, but then it will crush at least Matador in every other area. Party Crasher it's a bit closer. Do Rangefinder and Shot Package give extra range that doesn't show up on the range stat I guess (since RF requires ADS, and SP works in another method entirely)? Then you get into the whole idea of "wasted" range perks with these guns when their range is already maxed (but I'm not sure how since Verdict appears to have more range...). Very confusing.

I dunno, I'm just confused about shotgun reforging. My party crasher from what I can tell dropped with a pretty nice roll (it has Kneepads, Reinforced barrel, and Aggressive Ballistics) just EXCEPT no Shot Package or Rangefinder in the first slot, which is a huge problem evidently. I hate how it looks though. For now I'm strongly considering not spending a lot of weapon parts reforging it (just now got my WP's up to near 200) and just sticking with Found Verdict or it stock.

I had my best crucible spree by far, not sure exactly but I must have racked up 7-10 kills in a short time. Was getting so many score bonuses it was ridiculous. Pretty much wiped out the whole enemy team with rockets, they all came running around the corner for heavy ammo right after I had picked it up. Then I got a few more regular kills in a short time after that. I was surprised though, I only ended up 14-14 that match, it felt like much better. K/D keeps it's upward march but it's slow, only at .42...