Dark Souls

[Shifty Geezer]

Played some more with friends last night. Much easier now we got the

Spoiler

Drake Sword

, up to certain enemies. The talk above of farming reflects what I hate most aboue Japanese games though. They all seem tied into a style of work, rather than playing the game. As if games have to reflect the work ethic they value in real life. "You want a super sword? You have to do some pointless thing repeatedly a thousand times to get it. And also find out about it in a book, because there's no way you'd discover this in game." FFX drove the point home, and Rogue Galaxy finished me off, hence why I won't even buy the Studio Ghibli effort because I know it'll feature miserable grind. I wish they could adapt, because there's no way I'm going to!

 

[Sigfried1977]

Except you really don't have to farm here. Just like in every other rpg, Western or otherwise (leveling up certain attributes in Oblivion requires a ton of grindning), a little grinding simply makes things easier. If you just play Dark Souls, you will still end up with more than enough materials and items to craft a decent weapon to carry you all the way through the game. There are also a couple of armor pieces and weapons which are plain amazing and which can't be upgraded at all.
There are certainly a ton of secrets in Dark Souls which you probably won't discover on your own, but I think half the fun in Dark Souls is working together with other players, and that includes discussions on message boards. There's a player driven n in-game hint system for a reason.

 

[Carl B]

Where are you now ?

I've...

Spoiler

beaten Blighttown and Quelleg, and rung the second bell. On the other end of the world, I've beaten the Catacombs as well. Areas where I feel "stopped" at the moment include New Londo ruins (price of curses too high for me to return at the moment), and the Grave of Giants (or whatever it's called).

Have not explored the new areas open to me in depth yet; going through everywhere another round to do NPC interactions first to see what might be new in terms of plot/story. Still remain "Chief'd" - I only now notice the obvious road to rectification in my inventory, but am unable to use it(?)

Spoiler

Maybe I've waited too long already, or maybe some other condition must also be met

 

[Carl B]

There are certainly a ton of secrets in Dark Souls which you probably won't discover on your own, but I think half the fun in Dark Souls is working together with other players, and that includes discussions on message boards. There's a player driven n in-game hint system for a reason.

I actually have felt "spoilered" through in-game messaging even when it comes to some of the

Spoiler

Illusory walls

, but you know, I suppose it would be ridiculous to complain to that extent. I do like to think I would have discovered at least one or two of them on my own though. And hopefully there are several more that I am missing! Obviously I have a lot of area left to cover (hopefully). Truly massive world I feel - I like what From has achieved here.

 

[orangpelupa]

btw just got dark souls and confused.
this game will always be so "open" no "hand holding/funneled" story-progression from start to end?
or there will be "hand holding/funneled" story-progression after playing for a while?

i always get confused with "open" games...

 

[Carl B]

btw just got dark souls and confused.
this game will always be so "open" no "hand holding/funneled" story-progression from start to end?
or there will be "hand holding/funneled" story-progression after playing for a while?

i always get confused with "open" games...

A combination of both, except minus the hand-holding.

 

[patsu]

Played some more with friends last night. Much easier now we got the

Spoiler

Drake Sword

, up to certain enemies. The talk above of farming reflects what I hate most aboue Japanese games though. They all seem tied into a style of work, rather than playing the game. As if games have to reflect the work ethic they value in real life. "You want a super sword? You have to do some pointless thing repeatedly a thousand times to get it. And also find out about it in a book, because there's no way you'd discover this in game." FFX drove the point home, and Rogue Galaxy finished me off, hence why I won't even buy the Studio Ghibli effort because I know it'll feature miserable grind. I wish they could adapt, because there's no way I'm going to!

Except you really don't have to farm here. Just like in every other rpg, Western or otherwise (leveling up certain attributes in Oblivion requires a ton of grindning), a little grinding simply makes things easier. If you just play Dark Souls, you will still end up with more than enough materials and items to craft a decent weapon to carry you all the way through the game. There are also a couple of armor pieces and weapons which are plain amazing and which can't be upgraded at all.
There are certainly a ton of secrets in Dark Souls which you probably won't discover on your own, but I think half the fun in Dark Souls is working together with other players, and that includes discussions on message boards. There's a player driven n in-game hint system for a reason.

Yes, I'd say exploration is more important than grinding in Dark Souls since you can find a useful item elsewhere. It may be the exact thing you need to unblock your progress in other areas.

Grinding makes me feel more safe. Also the grunt battles can be dangerous, so they prepare me for boss battles. I have a friend in the chatroom who's at level 30 and he has one last battle to go. I am level 34 but still at about 1/5 to 1/4 of the game. He got over some of the humps by co-op.

However so far, I have beaten all the bosses alone either via trickery/wits or enhanced items (better armor, better sword found elsewhere). So it's not too bad. At some level, I have more fun melee'ing optional bosses.

About that sword Shifty discovered, I realized afterwards that plenty of in-game messages tell me about it. I just didn't read them. ^_^

 

[Carl B]

Does it make sense that at where I am in the game, I still have not encountered any covenant opportunities (other than Way of White, which I have not joined)?

Spoiler

I'm really wondering whether not joining that covenant prohibited any and all others from coming into play

 

[patsu]

Does it make sense that at where I am in the game, I still have not encountered any covenant opportunities (other than Way of White, which I have not joined)?

Spoiler

I'm really wondering whether not joining that covenant prohibited any and all others from coming into play

Hmm... I know there is another obvious one elsewhere. From what you told me, you have not visited there yet -- although you are far far ahead of me.

I think based on the areas you have visited, you should have seen at least one new covenant already. I forgot how to activate it off the top of my head.

I am thinking it should not matter if we are already in a covenant. This note is from my expectation, not from the guide. ^_^

 

[patsu]

i always get confused with "open" games...

Me too ! That's why I bought the guide and ask a lot of questions here and in the chatroom.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

Except you really don't have to farm here.

It's not about having to farm to complete the game, but that aspects of the game require farming. eg. One of the uber weapons in FFX required utterly stupid efforts, like 100 fights in a row without getting struck by lightning or something. There's all this content that the gamer who bought the game can only enjoy if they put in serious hours of work. By contrast, a western RPG will generally have you able to achieve all the skills and get the gear (save rare drops) in a prescribed number of play throughs. You won't buy a Dragon Age or Dungeon Siege game and find that the top-level, super power skills you really want require 200 hours each of randomly fighting the same monsters over and over. I suppose some would see the eastern RPG has having longevity, that you can go back to it and find more, but the way that's handled just doesn't work for me and the format is a serious deterrent.

 

[Cornsnake]

Does it make sense that at where I am in the game, I still have not encountered any covenant opportunities (other than Way of White, which I have not joined)?

Spoiler

I'm really wondering whether not joining that covenant prohibited any and all others from coming into play

Going by where you've been, you've missed one. It is a bit hidden though.

It's the only other covenant I've found. And I didn't join that one either.

 

[Carl B]

Thanks guys, at least I'm not losing my mind!

 

[patsu]

I'll read up the guide over lunch and update later. In my vague memory, I think you should have encountered more than one covenants already, besides the one I mentioned and the White covenant. I have a feeling Cornsnake and I are thinking about the same covenant.

 

[Carl B]

I'll read up the guide over lunch and update later.

No don't! I've got enough for now, for the moment... though do tell me if Way of White membership is a gateway prerequisite should I have screwed myself over. Right now I'm going under the assumption that it's not though.

 

[Gradthrawn]

It's not about having to farm to complete the game, but that aspects of the game require farming. eg. One of the uber weapons in FFX required utterly stupid efforts, like 100 fights in a row without getting struck by lightning or something. There's all this content that the gamer who bought the game can only enjoy if they put in serious hours of work. By contrast, a western RPG will generally have you able to achieve all the skills and get the gear (save rare drops) in a prescribed number of play throughs. You won't buy a Dragon Age or Dungeon Siege game and find that the top-level, super power skills you really want require 200 hours each of randomly fighting the same monsters over and over. I suppose some would see the eastern RPG has having longevity, that you can go back to it and find more, but the way that's handled just doesn't work for me and the format is a serious deterrent.

Seems to me the problem is you're a lazy completionist/hoarder.

Not sure how they would strike a better balance to reward the hardcore players that enjoy such challenges (that others find tedious) without slighting players who have no interest in such things. As others have mentioned, these things aren't required.

 

[Carl B]

Well, I joined one, so that answers that question...

Probably not the best choice though...

 

[patsu]

Well, I joined one, so that answers that question...

Probably not the best choice though...

Yeah, so you know how it works now.

I shall keep quiet about covenants though I'd point out that some of them will require spoilers to figure out. I don't think any human can work it out logically. ^_^

 

[patsu]

SIGFRIED !!!

Is magic any good ?

I found

Spoiler

Dusk of Oolecia (sp?). What's the real difference between hidden body and chameleon ? I have 1 unused magic slot. Will need to upgrade my intelligence to 14 (from 11) though.


You're like a Dark Souls genie... ^_^

EDIT: Yeah I opened the gate.

 

[Sigfried1977]

Hm, magic.

Spoiler

I upped my intellignce to 14 solely in order to cast a light spell. This is going to make your time in the Tomb of Giants a hell of a lot easier. Added another point so I could use greater magic weapon. Is Dusk the lady who was trapped inside the golden golem by any chance? (she sells the light spell and you really should buy it) As for magic in general: supposedly it gets incredibly powerful when you pump a lot of points into it. Like 2 shooting bosses with soul arrows kind of powerful. The obvious downside would be the neglection of VIT and END like every build that is more specialized. I don't really know what chameleon and that other spell you mentioned does. I think it's mostly for pvp purposes. I think chameleon literally turns you into a tree when you cast it in the Darkroot Gardens. If you want to reduce your aggro range in PVE, the Fog Ring is your best option. You can either acquire it through PVP in the Darkroot Garden Covenant (kitty-cat covenat) or you can trade a skull lantern for it with Snuggly the crow. (she's back at the Undead Asylum. If you want to know how to return to that place search for a youtube video. It's a bit tricky) Unlike fire and lightning weapons, magic, divine and occult weapons don't lose their modifiers, so a high INT/FAITH build might be able to do tremendous damage later. However that's just me speculating.
I'm playing a strength based character myself and I'm using pyromancy, but I reached apoint where my stats are high enough that I started brachning out. (Souls Level 90 at the moment)
I'm at the last boss by the way.