CYBERPUNK 2077 [XO, XBSX|S, PC, PS4, PS5]

[Riddlewire]

Would have been optimal if the game was like this at launch... With no base PS4/xone versions perhaps (only Pro/oneX and up).

How do you accomplish that? With no disc-based version available? Digital sales only on Pro/OneX?
It was a holiday release. Even if Microsoft changed their standard packaging to say "Only on One X/Series", a lot of Xbox One owners would have purchased this or received it as a gift. That's a ton of returns.
Also, CDPR would pretty much be guaranteeing themselves a dearth of sales on the Xbox side of things. One X was only on the market for 2.5 years. Series consoles were completely new.
The Sony situation would have been a lot better, but still lower sales.
CDPR had been working on this game for a very long time. They needed as much revenue as possible.

 

[PSman1700]

How do you accomplish that? With no disc-based version available? Digital sales only on Pro/OneX?
It was a holiday release. Even if Microsoft changed their standard packaging to say "Only on One X/Series", a lot of Xbox One owners would have purchased this or received it as a gift. That's a ton of returns.
Also, CDPR would pretty much be guaranteeing themselves a dearth of sales on the Xbox side of things. One X was only on the market for 2.5 years. Series consoles were completely new.
The Sony situation would have been a lot better, but still lower sales.
CDPR had been working on this game for a very long time. They needed as much revenue as possible.

Good points. Though, its clear as day the base 2013 consoles cant really handle this one. The premium consoles are already on their knees. They designed this one around pc hardware (CDPR said), so the baseline was abit high perhaps. Next gen consoles (or current gen then) are a much better fit, but a small install base.

 

[Malo]

I don't believe Xbox/Sony allowed only high end console versions of games, did they? If you wanted to sell on that generation, it had to be compatible with both?

 

[Deleted member 11852]

I don't believe Xbox/Sony allowed only high end console versions of games, did they? If you wanted to sell on that generation, it had to be compatible with both?

I don't recall any such policy. Microsoft had a marketing policy for a couple of years (since expired) that all new first party Xbox games would be cross-ten and Sony launched PS5 with next gen exclusives like Demon Souls and Returnal, so it's absolutely can launch games for current generation consoles that don't support last generation hardware.

 

[JPT]

Is this not all about money, if the cost of supporting last gen is lower than what they can make on sales to last gen, then it's what you do.
But I do wonder how big a chunk the PS5/XSX owners was of the PS4/XOne buyers. I mean some people just play CoD or FIFA and buy a game or two a year. Do they buy CP2077 on the last gen? If most of the potential buying/active segment went to current gen, then was it worth making it for last gen? Then again it is one+ year old game, so there was most likely more last-gen buyers last year.

 

[PSman1700]

Most console users do not have a ps5/xbox series. The largest userbase is probably the ps4/pro with its 120+ million units. The former is kinda niche compared to the latter.

 

[Malo]

I don't recall any such policy. Microsoft had a marketing policy for a couple of years (since expired) that all new first party Xbox games would be cross-ten and Sony launched PS5 with next gen exclusives like Demon Souls and Returnal, so it's absolutely can launch games for current generation consoles that don't support last generation hardware.

I'm referring to targeting the faster console in the same gen. Building your game for the PS4Pro or XboxOneX only.

 

[Silent_Buddha]

My picture posting wasn't about showcasing raytracing per-se, it was meant to demonstrate texture quality is not "destroyed" by raytracing. And really, if you think about it, there's no logical reason why raytracing should impact texture resolution. Screen-space reflections bother me, because the reflections themselves visibly change as the viewport changes. The obvious example: moving your viewport to include more of a scene then suddenly "generates" a reflection which wasn't visible before.

Example in my pictures above: the reason that water puddle is basically white in the SSR / RTX-OFF screenshot is because my viewport doesn't include the scenery which should actually be reflected in that water. The jarring part: if I were to look "up" slightly, suddenly the reflection would generate as a visible pop-in. The RTX-ON screencapture correctly rasterizes the reflection in the water puddle the entire time, no matter where my viewport is looking.

While actually playing the game, RTX lighting, shadowing and GI make a remarkable difference in the visual quality of the world and my personal immersion in it.

While true if performance isn't a factor, if you need to enable DLSS in order to have similar performance then the potential does exist for detail to be lost depending on how well the upscaling algorithm with DLSS handles some of the finer detail. In some games it does an admirable and mostly good job even increasing perceived detail at times. In other games, it absolutely destroys fine detail rendering it completely unusable for me. And that's not even getting into some of the rendering artifacts in games that don't implement DLSS well (like Dying Light 2) or where the game's engine may be unsuitable to a good DLSS implementation.

Unfortunately, that means that in many games where using RT requires using DLSS at achieve what I consider playable framerates, I'd have to disable RT as the RT while nice, doesn't offset the loss in detail in other areas of the game. Again, personal preference and I can totally understand why other people prefer a less detailed and blurrier presentation if it means the lighting and reflections are more correct with RT on.

Regards,
SB

 

[Albuquerque]

I understand what you're saying, however DLSS is enabled in that RTX screenshot. Do you see any obvious, overt indication of texture resolution destruction there?

 

[Johnny Awesome]

I've been waiting for this patch to bother getting into this one. I'll likely get it next month.

 

[Deleted member 11852]

I've been waiting for this patch to bother getting into this one. I'll likely get it next month.

Before the next gen versions, it was often available on lastgen for next to nothing. I am actually looking forward to diving back in because I was quite enjoying it before the PS4 version became me in a ghost city of six other people.

 

[JPT]

Most console users do not have a ps5/xbox series. The largest userbase is probably the ps4/pro with its 120+ million units. The former is kinda niche compared to the latter.

How many of those are active? How many of those are getting games bought for them? I think it was Horizon FW that had most sales on PS5 (I might remember this wrong), so the install base of the PS5 might be buying more than the install base of the PS4. Userbase != sales numbers, potential market segment, but not does not mean they actually buy stuff.
Android vs Apple, Apple users spend more money in the Appstore than the Android users, but they are fewer.

 

[PSman1700]

For select games perhaps. I cant imagine these 100+ million users stopping buying games for their ps4’s.

 

[Deleted member 11852]

Having got to level 20 in my launch PS4-version-running-on-PS5 play through, I started over again on the proper PS5 version and I'm impressed that graphically, the game is much closer to the launch trailer. The UI is still an utter mess though, but I know I'll get used to it in a few hours.

Ah.. Night City. It's good to be back.

edit: also vehicle handling feels pretty good now. Cars actually feel like they are connected to roads and feel like they have suspension, which were both missing at launch.
edit2: typo.

 

[PSman1700]

graphically, the game is much slower to the launch trailer.

What do you mean by slower?

 

[Deleted member 11852]

Weird typo there. I meant closer. Apart from some weird distant graphical issues, the biggest issue for me playing the PS4 version on PS5 was crowd density in Night City. There still aren't many vehicles, not even as many vehicles as GTA V when I played it on PS3, but there certainly are more people.

 

[JPT]

For select games perhaps. I cant imagine these 100+ million users stopping buying games for their ps4’s.

No, but the people spending the most, might have migrated. We can not treat the whole install base as one, some segmentation is needed.
If (bad example) we have 100 users, 10 of them buys 25 games a year, and the rest buys 1 game a year. If those 10 went to next gen at launch, then you are making more money on next gen than last gen. Maybe some of those on last gen even delay any purchase until they get the new console. It's not a good example, but in conveys the idea.
That is the interesting part, to me, what is the breakdown of users when it comes to buying. It might not be correct, but the logic backs that people with more surplus cash to buy a lot of games also are the first ones to get into the new gen of consoles.
Anecdotally, everybody that I know that cared to have a PS5, managed to get one. Because they spend money on gaming and care about it, you could call it their primary hobby. The rest was like, naaa I will pick one up later, they are coincidentally the same group that spend less on games.
So if we use PS5 vs PS4 numbers, it's now about 20M vs 100M sold. But another not valid assumption, those 20 upgraded from the 100. So it's really 20 vs 80. Then those 20 only have to spend 4 times as much, right?
I got 20 PS5 titles I bought , if we add PS+ stuff its probably 26 or 28 etc. I have not bought more than a couple PS4 releases after the release of PS5., CP2077 was one. I do belive I help to pull the average spend up.

So when is the cost of creating a last gen version not worth it anymore?

 

[PSman1700]

So when is the cost of creating a last gen version not worth it anymore?

Ok well that makes sense then.

those 20 upgraded from the 100. So it's really 20 vs 80.

Isnt it 120m ps4's sold though? Edit: it is almost 110m PS4 units sold/users as of december 2019, 116m units shipped as of december 2021. I think its quite accurate to assume theres almost 120m PS4's sold by now.
It doesnt make you incorrect or anything, though i think the PS4 install-base is going to be a consideration for cross-gen, which is happening for a reason.

 

[JPT]

Ok well that makes sense then.



Isnt it 120m ps4's sold though? Edit: it is almost 110m PS4 units sold/users as of december 2019, 116m units shipped as of december 2021. I think its quite accurate to assume theres almost 120m PS4's sold by now.
It doesnt make you incorrect or anything, though i think the PS4 install-base is going to be a consideration for cross-gen, which is happening for a reason.

I have no idea, I took that number from memory. So I think you got the right number.

In regards to Horizon Forbidden West. https://www.pushsquare.com/news/2022/02/horizon-forbidden-west-drives-strong-ps5-ps4-digital-sales

Of the sales split, 67 per cent of digital copies were purchased on the PS5, which is roughly consistent with what we observed with boxed copies. It’s important to remember that it was actually cheaper to buy the PS4 version and take advantage of Sony’s free PS4 to PS5 upgrade, but it seems like most people weren’t aware of this option – or simply didn’t care.

If 67% of your sales are on the new platform, was the investment in a PS4 version worth the money? I think in this case the answer is yes, but at what point do you drop the older gen? Also what, if any, is the limiting effect for the game (PS5 version) to be able to run on the older version to? Would you get more sales, by doing a bigger WOW display on the new gen? I wonder if we can guess anything by looking at Rachet vs HFW, most likely not, but speculation is fun

 

[PSman1700]

I have no idea, I took that number from memory. So I think you got the right number.

In regards to Horizon Forbidden West. https://www.pushsquare.com/news/2022/02/horizon-forbidden-west-drives-strong-ps5-ps4-digital-sales


If 67% of your sales are on the new platform, was the investment in a PS4 version worth the money? I think in this case the answer is yes, but at what point do you drop the older gen? Also what, if any, is the limiting effect for the game (PS5 version) to be able to run on the older version to? Would you get more sales, by doing a bigger WOW display on the new gen? I wonder if we can guess anything by looking at Rachet vs HFW, most likely not, but speculation is fun

Yes when looking at consoles the numbers, it looks indeed like the ps5 userbase, while smaller, spends more.

If that is the same for android vs ios, im not so sure though. As i have understood, on android you are free to pay using a different platform, whilest on ios you have to go through apple (store). Same for subscribtions. Apple doesnt allow to pay outside of the app store wheras google does.
The most popular paid ios apps are Youtube and Tencent Video. Android also covers close to 70% of the market.

Wanted to cover that as that market was used to compare to the ps4/5, but they are very different to the ios vs android markets. The ios/android revenue numbers dont paint the whole picture.

For Sony (ps4 vs ps5) your probably right though, their in the same ecosystem under the same umbrella so comparisons are easier to make there.