CYBERPUNK 2077 [XO, XBSX|S, PC, PS4, PS5]

[PSman1700]

Aaaaaahhhh!

The polygon count, the lighting, the texture detail and the RT reflections.

That demo is really waay beyond anything we have seen so far on PC and consoles alike.

Death to cross gen!

We need more tech demos like this. The 6th gen demodisc discussion made me realize how intresting the days of tech demos where. Now its basically UE5, and a couple of nv demos.

Going to be intresting if these tech demos are going to materialize into real games with everything going on.

 

[Silent_Buddha]

Thats fair. I forgot one thing, if a person hasnt used this before, its gonna take some time of playing RT games until your eye gets accustomed and learns how various effects look. For example, in this pic:



You can see in the left, how the car has shadows underneath, since it blocks the sun and light. How the car is grounded in the scenery. In the right, with no RT, the car just floats. Glows. You'll imediately notice things like that as you keep playing games with RT.

Or in this one:

https://imgsli.com/OTY1NjI

The RT is the left pic, without is the right. RT gives you that shadow where it gets more diffuse as you move away from the object that casts shadows. Look how angular and sharp it is without RT. How abrupt. Then you have four giant neon panels, with RT look how the light falls onto every surface in the vecinity of the boards. In the pic without RT, its as if those huge panels arent even there.

Damn, so much detail destroyed on the left side. There is no way I'd run with RT on if it means that much of a quality sacrifice in the rest of the image.

Regards,
SB

 

[Phantom88]

No, details arent destroyed on the left side. You're looking at a cropped piece of the car thats in a darker area without light. If you look at the full picture, you have more details on the RT picture, because neon pannels and other light sources cast light everywhere. While the raster image is almost pitch black on both sides of the sidewalk.

https://imgsli.com/OTY1NjE

The raster image loses almost every detail on the left side.

RT gives you more light and detail

https://imgsli.com/OTY1ODU
https://imgsli.com/OTY1NjA
https://imgsli.com/OTY1NjU

Sometimes raster doesnt even make sense. Like this one:

https://imgsli.com/OTY1NTk

Blue neons everywhere and the scene is almost entirely dark

 

[Karamazov]

We need more tech demos like this. The 6th gen demodisc discussion made me realize how intresting the days of tech demos where. Now its basically UE5, and a couple of nv demos.

Going to be intresting if these tech demos are going to materialize into real games with everything going on.

i can't find it but i had read a dev interview, they said they'd left enough GPU/CPU headroom in the demo for game logic so a real game could look just as good, and that even in the on rail action sequences, the entire city is still there, it's not a vertical slice, and every car crash is dynamic handled by their physics engine, so crashes are different each playthrough.

 

[Silent_Buddha]

https://imgsli.com/OTY1NjE

Regardless of whether you wish to see it or not, detail is destroyed in the left hand side of that image. I don't even have to zoom in to see it. The lower part of the P for example. The concrete of the meridian also loses an absolute ton of detail as does that pillar that is in the center of the screen. The asphalt of the side of the road that the car is on is also far lower detail with the potholes being extremely blurry. I could see more wetness potentially making the asphalt slightly less detailed, but there is no forgiveness or excuse for how incredibly blurry those potholes and the cracks spidering out from them look with RT enabled.

I'm guessing this is due to having to enable DLSS, because if it's not then RT would be absolute trash in this game.

OTOH the circular light fixtures at the top look much better with RT on. Big thumbs up there.

So yeah, while there are some improvements with RT on, the loss of detail in so many things just makes it 100% not worth it for me. The lighting is certainly better, but OMG it's such a blur fest, especially in the distance (crosswalks become a blurry mess). Hell, the building on the left side while better lit, loses all detail as it also becomes a blurry mess with all detail smoothed away into some flat blurry looking texture. I'd have a headache trying to play the game at those settings.

Hell, you can't even see the texture (diamond plating) of the metal that PORSCHE is on. It's completely blurred away with RT on. If you zoom in really far you can kind of see it beneath all the blur, but you shouldn't have to zoom in to see detail ... which happens to be even more blurry if you zoom in.

That shot would likely look significantly better with DLSS off, however, I'm guessing it'd also be unplayable with DLSS off. I'm curious if that's DLSS quality mode or some lower quality DLSS setting? Because if that's DLSS quality, then it's not doing a good job in this game.

I'm really looking forward to the day when RT is able to be enabled at playable speeds without destroying detail, but currently only a very few games are able to do that. I love RT, but current generation hardware just isn't good enough for me, yet. AMD's RT hardware is a joke, and NV's RT isn't quite fast enough yet.

But, that said, it's fine because it's good enough for enough people that RT isn't in danger of dying. That's the important thing. RT had to kick off somewhere and I'm glad it exists in games. It's just not yet at a place where I'd universally enable in games. However, I'm certainly glad that some people find it good enough that they are willing to enable it all the games they play if they can.

Regards,
SB

 

[PSman1700]

i can't find it but i had read a dev interview, they said they'd left enough GPU/CPU headroom in the demo for game logic so a real game could look just as good, and that even in the on rail action sequences, the entire city is still there, it's not a vertical slice, and every car crash is dynamic handled by their physics engine, so crashes are different each playthrough.

Maybe Rockstar can pull it off, its not only CPU and GPU headroom. Also, seeing is believing. Tech demos seldomly have turned out to be the real thing in actual games. We will see

So far CP2077 (PC), FS2020, Rift Apart and FW are equally topping my list. Many more will come im sure the further we dive into the generation.

 

[orangpelupa]

The concrete of the meridian also loses an absolute ton of detail as does that pillar that is in the center of the screen. The asphalt of the side of the road that the car is on is also far lower detail with the potholes being extremely blurry. I could see more wetness potentially making the asphalt slightly less detailed, but there is no forgiveness or excuse for how incredibly blurry those potholes and the cracks spidering out from them look with RT enabled.

I suspect it's due to RT reflection. As it's the consistent issues I observed

- too transparent / shiny / wet
- smeary
- materials loss of details (the details itself is still there but less easily visible. So you gotta move closer, or change view angle, or make a shading)

Fixed by using SSR instead.

 

[pjbliverpool]

But in reality, what was the last mirror like reflection you saw in a puddle? Less sharp doesn't necessarily equal less realistic.

 

[orangpelupa]

And realistic doesn't automatically meant better or automatically must be that's the original art intention.

The RT in cyberpunk is very customizable. Everyone can enjoy the best RT according their taste and hardware performance

 

[techuse]

The RT reflections make the big lake in Cyberpunk look worse but other than that I cant think of any incidents.

 

[see colon]

Regardless of whether you wish to see it or not, detail is destroyed in the left hand side of that image. I don't even have to zoom in to see it.

I think a lot of what you are saying is detail is actually the noise present in CP2077's screen space effects. The SSR and SSAO have this dithered, almost checkerboard pattern to them that add a lot of inferred sharpness. I don't disagree that it looks sharper than the image with RT effects on. But I don't think that it looks better or more detailed, per say. Just sharper an noisier. I do wish there were more granular options for RT reflections, though.

 

[orangpelupa]

Top of my head,

A few RT reflections that I didn't like (smeary, or too wet, or something else) thus I prefer SSR

- neon signs on wet asphalt
- water bodies
- on any semi transparent/reflective surfaces

where I prefer RT reflections
- wet transition (it's more gradual, less abrubt than SSR)


As for RT lighting and shadows, I like them enabled everywhere and I have yet to find any issues.

Except that Psycho RT is more performant than ultra RT. I don't know why and I dont see any difference.

 

[Deleted member 11852]

I've not played Cyberpunk on PS5 (PS4 version) since around patch 1.1/1.10 but I downloaded the PS5 version, and loaded my PS4 game (which just worked.. why can't other PS5 games just do this?) and the faces are massively improved and the world certainly feels a lot denser.

The interface is a bloody mess though, and I can't remember what I had done in my 20 hours save file so once Horizon Forbidden West is finished, I'm actually looking forward to diving into Cyberpunk for a fresh play through. I remember enjoying what I played but each PS4 performance patch made Night City more and more desolate so I stopped visiting the ghost town.

 

[Albuquerque]

Regardless of whether you wish to see it or not, detail is destroyed in the left hand side of that image. I don't even have to zoom in to see it. The lower part of the P for example. The concrete of the meridian also loses an absolute ton of detail as does that pillar that is in the center of the screen. The asphalt of the side of the road that the car is on is also far lower detail with the potholes being extremely blurry. I could see more wetness potentially making the asphalt slightly less detailed, but there is no forgiveness or excuse for how incredibly blurry those potholes and the cracks spidering out from them look with RT enabled.

I'm guessing this is due to having to enable DLSS, because if it's not then RT would be absolute trash in this game.

I see the artifacts in the screen shot you're describing; that's not at all how the game looks for me. The RT side of that screenshot looks like the texture resolution was somehow adjusted, or maybe even the motion blur effect was active. RT doesn't do that...

I can't figure out where that screenshot was taken, so here's two of my own. Look at the water standing in the pot hole directly in front... The picture where the water is reflecting nothing but sky (ie almost white) is the RT-off capture, whereas the picture where that puddle is reflecting other things is the RT-on picture. You can clearly see, in both pictures, the texture quality is identical yet the lighting, reflections, and shadows are substantially different.

RT OFF:

RT ON:

Whatever is in that screencapture on the RT side, it isn't indicative of real life. At least, not for me.

 

[Arwin]

Game was on offer here for €24.95 and with the latest next gen patch seemingly being pretty good and my son wishing to play it I decided to get it. Game looks properly next-gen … and the character configuration screen is great, it was high time we got actual male body parts with even some basic jiggle physics [emoji23]

 

[PSman1700]

Would have been optimal if the game was like this at launch... With no base PS4/xone versions perhaps (only Pro/oneX and up).

 

[Karamazov]

https://uploadvr.com/cyberpunk-2077-vr-mod-gameplay/

 

[Nesh]

I see the artifacts in the screen shot you're describing; that's not at all how the game looks for me. The RT side of that screenshot looks like the texture resolution was somehow adjusted, or maybe even the motion blur effect was active. RT doesn't do that...

I can't figure out where that screenshot was taken, so here's two of my own. Look at the water standing in the pot hole directly in front... The picture where the water is reflecting nothing but sky (ie almost white) is the RT-off capture, whereas the picture where that puddle is reflecting other things is the RT-on picture. You can clearly see, in both pictures, the texture quality is identical yet the lighting, reflections, and shadows are substantially different.

RT OFF: View attachment 6291

RT ON: View attachment 6292

Whatever is in that screencapture on the RT side, it isn't indicative of real life. At least, not for me.

I d say I dont fully find RT ON more pleasing compared to the OFF in that screenshot. In areas it looks better and in other areas I prefer the off.
It produces better results when there are many reflections in a darker area with multiple lights. But here it doesnt work for the best
Are there any more daytime comparisons with RT off and on we can check?

 

[Phantom88]

I d say I dont fully find RT ON more pleasing compared to the OFF in that screenshot. In areas it looks better and in other areas I prefer the off.
It produces better results when there are many reflections in a darker area with multiple lights. But here it doesnt work for the best
Are there any more daytime comparisons with RT off and on we can check?

Most of these are from launch i think, back in 2020. Are we still magically missing details with RT ?

https://imgsli.com/OTcwMDA
https://imgsli.com/OTcwMDE
https://imgsli.com/OTcwMDI
https://imgsli.com/OTcwMDM
https://imgsli.com/OTcwMDU
https://imgsli.com/OTcwMDc
https://imgsli.com/OTcwMDk

 

[Albuquerque]

My picture posting wasn't about showcasing raytracing per-se, it was meant to demonstrate texture quality is not "destroyed" by raytracing. And really, if you think about it, there's no logical reason why raytracing should impact texture resolution. Screen-space reflections bother me, because the reflections themselves visibly change as the viewport changes. The obvious example: moving your viewport to include more of a scene then suddenly "generates" a reflection which wasn't visible before.

Example in my pictures above: the reason that water puddle is basically white in the SSR / RTX-OFF screenshot is because my viewport doesn't include the scenery which should actually be reflected in that water. The jarring part: if I were to look "up" slightly, suddenly the reflection would generate as a visible pop-in. The RTX-ON screencapture correctly rasterizes the reflection in the water puddle the entire time, no matter where my viewport is looking.

While actually playing the game, RTX lighting, shadowing and GI make a remarkable difference in the visual quality of the world and my personal immersion in it.