Some more details regarding the XSX SoC wrt Power, thermal, and yield: https://www.anandtech.com/show/16489/xbox-series-x-soc-power-thermal-and-yield-tradeoffs
Current Generation Hardware Speculation with a Technical Spin [post launch 2021] [XBSX, PS5]
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RagnarokFF
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snc
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We are getting our first RT only title in AAA space - oh yeah I am happy!
Oles' interview answers there with WCCFTech are quite enlightening - we should have him back for this title on release with a long-form interview.
Yeah. I like how honest he usually is with his answers. He answers questions quite unlike most devs.We are getting our first RT only title in AAA space - oh yeah I am happy!
Oles' interview answers there with WCCFTech are quite enlightening - we should have him back for this title on release with a long-form interview.
Choice quotes on silicon yield which is an interesting discussion bit to pocket for later:
Xbox Series X SoC: Power, Thermal, and Yield Tradeoffs (anandtech.com)
When the defect rate is 0.09, which is nice and low, the chances that two defects occur on the same chip are very small. Even then, by choosing to run a design with only 26 WGPs enabled, two less than the full 28 WGPs, almost everything that comes off the manufacturing line can be used – an effective yield increase, reducing the average cost per processor by a third.
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This would make the Series X sales around 2.33 million CPUs, suggesting a minimum of 16000 wafers total at 100% yield, or up to 21800 wafers at 73% yield. The real number is likely to be somewhere between the two, but you can see how much of an effect the configuration choice can have on getting product to market in time, as well as the cost per processor.
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Yield is surprisingly lower than I thought even though I'm reading: Good Yield! Really does put into perspective the price points of PC GPUS. And it does sound like stock levels will be low for quite a while with respect for demand.
Xbox Series X SoC: Power, Thermal, and Yield Tradeoffs (anandtech.com)
- A 300 mm wafer has 706.86 cm2 of area
- A defect rate of 0.09 defects per cm2 means ~64 defects per wafer
- Scarlett is 306.4 mm2 (15.831 mm x 22.765 mm)
- Note that SoCs are rectangles, and wafers are circular,
- Wafer die calculators show that 100% yield of this SoC size would give 147 dies per wafer
- Microsoft sets the frequency/power such that if all dies are good, all can be used
- With a 0.09 / cm2 defect rate, there are 107 good dies per wafer
- This means a 73% yield, 107 / 147A
When the defect rate is 0.09, which is nice and low, the chances that two defects occur on the same chip are very small. Even then, by choosing to run a design with only 26 WGPs enabled, two less than the full 28 WGPs, almost everything that comes off the manufacturing line can be used – an effective yield increase, reducing the average cost per processor by a third.
...
This would make the Series X sales around 2.33 million CPUs, suggesting a minimum of 16000 wafers total at 100% yield, or up to 21800 wafers at 73% yield. The real number is likely to be somewhere between the two, but you can see how much of an effect the configuration choice can have on getting product to market in time, as well as the cost per processor.
****
Yield is surprisingly lower than I thought even though I'm reading: Good Yield! Really does put into perspective the price points of PC GPUS. And it does sound like stock levels will be low for quite a while with respect for demand.
snc
Veteran
So my opinion that games are already heavy computed was even little too conservative ;d
https://www.4a-games.com.mt/4a-dna/...-for-playstation-5-and-xbox-series-xs-upgrade
"Metro Exodus will run at 4K / 60FPS with full Ray Traced lighting throughout on PlayStation 5 and Xbox Series X. The base game and DLC expansions will feature both our ground-breaking Ray Traced Global Illumination (RTGI) and the Ray Traced Emissive Lighting techniques pioneered in The Two Colonels expansion across all content."
I see the console editions will not have RT reflections. Bit of a bummer for console gamers seeing as ME has plenty of water, puddles, broken glass and windows within the environment.
"Metro Exodus will run at 4K / 60FPS with full Ray Traced lighting throughout on PlayStation 5 and Xbox Series X. The base game and DLC expansions will feature both our ground-breaking Ray Traced Global Illumination (RTGI) and the Ray Traced Emissive Lighting techniques pioneered in The Two Colonels expansion across all content."
I see the console editions will not have RT reflections. Bit of a bummer for console gamers seeing as ME has plenty of water, puddles, broken glass and windows within the environment.
Tkumpathenurple
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Has there ever been any move towards a different pairing of shapes? I've taken the oblong in circle setup for granted, but why is it that there aren't, for example, hexagons within circular wafers, or just straightforward oblong wafers?
Although it may be the case, I think it's still too early to call it without more solid data. It may be that the hardware is there, but the dev kits haven't exposed it yet. Sony seem to have prioritised a dev kit in which PS4 developers can quickly transition to extracting decent performance out of the PS5. VRS wasn't available for the PS4/Pro, and so exposing such hardware (if it's even there, that is) may have been decided not to yield much benefit when compared to the resources it would take Sony's dev kit engineers to expose it and developers to implement it.
Microsoft have taken the opposite approach of less mature tools, which presently results in lesser utilisation of their hardware (although their hardware is also powerful enough for it to not result in an appreciable performance difference with their main competitor,) but has also resulted in relatively widespread adoption of VRS.
AbsoluteBeginner
Regular
If VRS brings 5-10fps increase, that can be simply clawed back by outputting slightly less pixels, or by using software VRS (ala MW), then it makes total sense why Sony would not implement it.
It might be required for MS, along with Mesh Shaders and SFS, just so they can unify DX12U across their whole family of devices, but for Sony? I think they would rather take having chip and dev kits ready well before and spending that budget somewhere else.
IMO good decision by Sony, one after the other (exploiting max clock rates, great IO/SSD, joystick etc)
It might be required for MS, along with Mesh Shaders and SFS, just so they can unify DX12U across their whole family of devices, but for Sony? I think they would rather take having chip and dev kits ready well before and spending that budget somewhere else.
IMO good decision by Sony, one after the other (exploiting max clock rates, great IO/SSD, joystick etc)
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