Current Generation Hardware Speculation with a Technical Spin [post GDC 2020] [XBSX, PS5]

Discussion in 'Console Technology' started by Proelite, Mar 16, 2020.

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  1. Karamazov

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    don't know if all is true, but interesting read
     
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  2. anexanhume

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    Devs have to be informed because they need to know how their hardware is going to react. Sony couldn’t possibly predict all the usage scenarios for the cores, so they need to arm developers with the information necessary to understand the hardware’s behavior.

    Have those same devs told you they’ve actually witnessed this behavior in development?

    Frankly, it would be more alarming if developers hadn’t heard anything because it would imply Sony withholding information or being intentionally misleading.
     
    #642 anexanhume, Mar 21, 2020
    Last edited: Mar 21, 2020
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  3. PSman1700

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    Reads like NXgamer :yep2:
     
  4. iroboto

    iroboto Daft Funk
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    It should be erroneously expensive console if it’s able to keep within 50 MHz of Those clocks fixed under heavy loads. And that doesn’t make sense to me.

    typically boost mode for GPUs are handled by a controller that is monitoring power, voltage, frequency and thermals and the data passing through the chip.

    when the saturation of the chip is low, it boosts the frequency high because a majority of the chip is not being used and it can use the available power to increase the clock speed.

    As the loads get heavier it continually brings the boost down until it hits the base clock of the chip.

    If Cerny is saying that PS5 is under full boost all the time, then to make it deterministic the power is fixed. Then the VRMs and PSU need to be of high quality to supply all that power to keep both GPU and CPU under heavy load running near cap. Not to mention that silicon for the SOC must be of high yield to sustain high voltages for a long duration of time. Then of course cooling must be significant to keep it cooled.

    If these items work in tandem then I do believe it’s possible to stay fixed near those cap frequencies. But that increases the cost of the console significantly.

    the alternative is use cheaper parts across the board and the swing of power between CPU and GPU needs to be greater as the load begins to ramp up.

    As a potential buyer I will want to know before I buy. Sorry this comes across as concern trolling here. I don’t have much doubts that they can keep it held at 2.23Ghz on the GPU, but I want to know the cost to the CPU when the GPU is under heavy load. I want transparency.

    If it’s a significant drop off then all the talk about these new CPUs having this massive paradigm shift in game design is toast. GPUs easily use 2-4x the power of a CPU; so how much will need to be pulled from the CPU while the GPU is under load trying to hold its 2.23Ghz.

    or if they want to keep the CPU up and running strong for this paradigm shift and it is under load then tell us what the GPU clock rate will be when that happens.
     
    #644 iroboto, Mar 21, 2020
    Last edited: Mar 21, 2020
  5. function

    function None functional
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    I think the PS5 will still need a memory reserve similar in size to the XSX.

    8K DVR cache, all them social media integration things for "sharing", social-distancing (friends) lists and chats, and probably space to add or tweak things in the future.

    And you can't rely on swapping part of the game out unless you've forced every game maker to make part of their game available for swapping. The game has to keep working reliably no matter what!

    Sizeable OS reserves are with us to stay, unfortunately. Though at least they're getting more reasonably proportioned....
     
  6. PSman1700

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    If the downclock would only be 50mhz, or 2%, in very rare cases, they wouldnt have to mention it, because every CPU/GPU does it, probably even more often then what they are claiming. Besides that, if it would be rather often, and it's only 2% at the absolute max, it would either not really be a problem to mention it, because that doesn't have much if any performance impact.

    The following post is getting closer to the truth

    https://forum.beyond3d.com/posts/2112796/
     
  7. iroboto

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    Sony doesn’t need to with hold information. You just let the developers run a benchmark that will torture CPU, torture GPU and torture CPU and GPU under different configurations (priority configs) and see from there what to expect for their targeted game.

    they are under NDA so they can’t talk about it.

    I can see a scenario where this is bothersome for developers. You fine tune your engine for 1 profile and the game for that. Your next title changes requirements and you’ve got the engine tuned for a different mix of CPU and GPU and now you have to go back make changes. If the swing is nothing, than this is a nothing burger. But if that was true they should have just gone with fixed.
     
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  8. anexanhume

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    And yet we know about it from them o_O
     
  9. iroboto

    iroboto Daft Funk
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    Dictator isnt tossing his sources into the fire.
     
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  10. Tkumpathenurpahl

    Tkumpathenurpahl Oil Monsieur Geezer
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    I wonder how much of that could be shifted to some DDR4 if they take the ARM+DDR approach again. Or maybe just the DDR approach.

    There'd certainly have to be some amount of the GDDR6 reserved for the OS, but screenshots, DVR, downloads, notifications, Spotify, party chat, streaming, the web browser, and the store could probably be served just fine by a couple of GB's of DDR4.

    I think there was something like 512MB of memory on the PS4 that had to be available to the OS when requested. So it's possible they've iterated on that with the PS5.

    My guess is 1GB of GDDR6 reserved by the OS at all times, and 1GB that can be used by either the OS or the game. It only takes a fifth of a second to fill that from the SSD. I can wait a fifth of a second to see my dynamic Subnautica theme.

    Then 2GB's of DDR4 for the other stuff I mentioned. Maybe 4GB's of DDR4, and the 1GB of OS-available GDDR6 gets swapped in here. The extra 1GB available to developers if they want to venture out of the GDDR6.
     
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  11. pjbliverpool

    pjbliverpool B3D Scallywag
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    Guess...
    7GB/s SSD's are due to hit the market this year. Although they'll probably cost near 50% the price of an XSX. It's doubtless that it'll be possible to create a faster PC than XSX by the time it launches (Big Navi, Ryzen 3950x, 7GB/s SSD) but the cost will be insane. I think PC gamers like myself justify spending that kind of money (although I wouldn't spend that much myself) because they prefer the customisability of the PC experience. They enjoy tweaking setting and benchmarking, in some cases more than the gaming itself.

    Personally I'll probably wait for the graphics generation after Ampere/RDNA2 and get something a bit more reasonably priced. My 1070 should comfortably handle anything the next can throw at it at 1080p sans HDR. I can handle slumming it for a year I reckon.
     
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  12. anexanhume

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    Then why bring it up in the first place? My point was that we only know about it because the developers said something that was probably under NDA.
     
  13. disco_

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    The guy who invented it, IIRC.
     
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  14. PSman1700

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    Agree with you, im in the same boat. For the living room though, the ps4 will be replaced by an xsx, together with gamepass that will be a nice combo.
    The amount of ps exclusives seen over the whole lifespan hasnt been what it was like my previous PS, the PS2. I mainly got it for HZD because i have someone related working at the studio. But since more and more PS games appear on pc aswell, i thought of going that combo, instead of always PC+PS for exclusives.

    And yes, i'm going to get a whole new pc (two actually) one or two years in next-gen. My current 3900x/2080 will be passed on to my sister.
    Hey btw, i remember you well from Chairmansteve's forum back in the days, good times :D This forum is the only one matching that one in quality it seems. 'Hank supercomputer' answering questions was a funny thing ;)
     
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  15. Jay

    Jay
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    Could you put up a link please, interested to read a bit more.
     
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  16. RobertR1

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    A 9900k/2080ti comfortably pulls ahead the XSX and that combo will be 2yrs+ old by the time the XSX arrives. The only difference being the faster SSD *if* PC games are programmed to take advantage of it.
     
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  17. AbsoluteBeginner

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    Wasnt this what all insiders were doing last year and people were almost violently defending them with "they are protecting their sources"?

    I started to doubt what Cerny said because he said they couldnt lock 2.0GHz before, yet now it should run at 2.2GHz all the times? Well, thats if you listen what other people say about what Cerny said, but upon second listen there is no guarantees from Cerny.

    He said :

    They expect (dont guarantee)...

    at or near (how much is near?)...

    most of the time (51%…70%...90%?, Who knows, it all fits)

    Until we get benchmarks or leaks by developers we may never know. Perhaps it will run full pelt in every cutscene, but drop when alot of RT is introduced to scene? For now, its a nice + on spec sheet and good way to maximize your silicon, but we wont know the clocks or perf until it is released.

    I suspect, with how Dictator posted it, its not going to be 2.23GHz at all times at all.
     
    #657 AbsoluteBeginner, Mar 21, 2020
    Last edited: Mar 21, 2020
  18. iroboto

    iroboto Daft Funk
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    yea, leaks ;)

    He hasn't said anything damning. He's just putting some context around some things we are discussing.
    The information around this will come out eventually.
     
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  19. PSman1700

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    Dictator ;)

    It will. Will there be another voting topic? :)
     
  20. Dictator

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    Lol definitely would never do that hahahaa
     
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