Current Generation Hardware Speculation with a Technical Spin [post GDC 2020] [XBSX, PS5]

[BRiT]

At this point, I think DigitalFoundry should maybe hold off another week or two, cause if this patch is anything like typical patches, there will be more followups to fix the new bugs just introduced.

 

[iroboto]

Wonder if Digital Foundry will be retesting this after the XBSX patch? I know they're probably super busy with a million things right now.
Game improvements

Performance and Stability

• Improved stability and performance.
• (Xbox Series) Improved experience on Xbox Series S | X consoles including screen tearing
• (PC) Addressed a VRAM/RAM leakage issue when alt tabbing to desktop.

It's a lot of work for them, but December is a little quieter in terms of releases, Cyberpunk appears to be BC only, Destiny 2 will release their next gen patch. I'm also not expecting patches through December because typically programming offices will go on code freeze through the holidays, except maybe 343i (cough), so they may come around to it. January and February will be when things return.

 

[Shortbread]

So many excuses on how strange it is that the SeriesX isn't noticeable faster, and not one single admission that the PS5 could simply have a similar real-world performance, with each of the $500 consoles having strengths and weaknesses that mostly nullify each other. Well it has more teraflops so this has to be because Microsoft haven't enabled their secret sauce yet!

This just reads like damage control over all the 3rd-party comparisons we've been seeing this past couple of weeks.

I shouldn't have expected anything different the moment I saw it had been written by Tom Warren, so that part is on me at least.

I think its more of Tom Warren's prior tweets damage control, more so than Microsoft. Tom hasn't been very neutral in certain gaming matters, often sounding more like a corporate PR mouthpiece.

 

[Deleted member 11852]

This is one developer. For all we know he's being put on the spot and doesn't want to say anything bad about Xbox. Maybe he didn't want to say, no actually MS tools are garbage lol IDK.

Take a step back there for a second. You're suggesting than rather than the developer simply stating "we're unable (or not ready) to talk about specific platform tools" he lied instead. I really don't think so.

This is a speculation thread, not a conspiracy theory thread.

hmm. Xbox patches have traditionally been larger, I wonder if it's because each game runs in it's own VM, so the patches must include other things.

This is what I've long suspected and it's only thing that makes sense.

 

[VitaminB6]

Take a step back there for a second. You're suggesting than rather than the developer simply stating "we're unable (or not ready) to talk about specific platform tools" he lied instead. I really don't think so.

This is a speculation thread, not a conspiracy theory thread..

It's a conspiracy theory to think that a developer being interviewed about his new game might not want to paint a platform in which he uses to make money in a bad light? I can't say I agree with your assessment of my comment. Regardless It was also only a suggestion that I ended with IDK.

 

[BRiT]

Take a step back there for a second. You're suggesting than rather than the developer simply stating "we're unable (or not ready) to talk about specific platform tools" he lied instead. I really don't think so.

There's a bit of a nuance in the development tools being functional and easy to use yet what they produce not being optimal. Much like using a C++ Library for Sorting. It may surely be functional and produce correct results, but perhaps behind the scenes they're using Bubble Sort and not Quick Sort.

 

[iroboto]

Take a step back there for a second. You're suggesting than rather than the developer simply stating "we're unable (or not ready) to talk about specific platform tools" he lied instead. I really don't think so.

This is a speculation thread, not a conspiracy theory thread.

Well true.
But it doesn't change the fact that they acknowledged that there are problems (DF goes to them first before releasing video) and then mentioned to DF I think in passing that they were already working on many of the items they identified.

So... while I don't know what Dirt 5 shipped with in terms of GDK versions, and the tools do seem good (crashing is minimal from what I can see so it is stable) we only know that the product isn't performing where they wanted it to be either. For either version of course, but frankly how many variants they needed to address for launch, this patch was likely well on it's way before release. They've likely just released a good stable candidate for launch, and are coming back with another patch to address optimization.

 

[Shompola]

Welp looks like the first optimization patch for AC:V is coming out tomorrow. Will be interesting to see what it brings in and what kind of optimization they have done.

Ahh I see you guys are already talking about it! I am slow as always ehhh...

 

[iroboto]

At this point, I think DigitalFoundry should maybe hold off another week or two, cause if this patch is anything like typical patches, there will be more followups to fix the new bugs just introduced.

The 60fps Series S oof, looking to see how this one plays out.

 

[Deleted member 11852]

It's a conspiracy theory to think that a developer being interviewed about his new game might not want to paint a platform in which he uses to make money in a bad light?

No, that's fine. In interviews you don't have to answer all the questions, you can simply state that you can't comment on matters. It is a conspiracy theory that rather than not comment, Codemasters lied or exaggerated abut the state of Xbox's SDK and tools.

Well true. But it doesn't change the fact that they acknowledged that there are problems (DF goes to them first before releasing video) and then mentioned to DF I think in passing that they were already working on many of the items they identified.

I must have missed this. When did DF previously attribute the state of the GDK to Codemasters?

 

[iroboto]

I must have missed this. When did DF previously attribute the state of the GDK to Codemasters?

They didn't.
During the Dirt 5 video, DF mentions that they give the developers the heads up on their findings before releasing them. Codemasters acknowledged their findings and indicated that they're already working on it.

A few days later the patch was publicly announced.

If you ignore the tools for the moment, the point of the patch is to address performance issues they knew they had. So it's clear to them that there is probably more they could have done within the platform. Tools or not, it's clear it's getting looked at whatever it is.

tldr; i'm saying there lies a a good probability that they didn't lie about the state of the tools in the interview. It could very well be good. But that doesn't mean the gold disc master was their best foot forward for Series consoles either. As referenced by not just 1 but 2 patches coming now.

I'm not expecting this to be night and day patches, but at the very least they could deal with big lurches, screen tearing, etc.

 

[Deleted member 11852]

They didn't. During the Dirt 5 video, DF mentions that they give the developers the heads up on their findings before releasing them. Codemasters acknowledged their findings and indicated that they're already working on it.

I was only addressing the state of the SDK and the suggestion that Codemasters said a bunch of positive things rather than be honest if their experience was actually poor. Patches are parr for the course and irrelevant, heck I'm on my third PS5 firmware and third Miles Morales version and I've only had the console six days!

It's the whole, Xbox performance will improve massively and the SDK is to blame narrative when the only developer who has gone on the record (AFIAK) has said they're really happy with the SDK and I balk at the suggestion they're conspiring to hide the true situation. That's nuts. Codemasters and the people who work for them have a professional reputation.

 

[VitaminB6]

and I balk at the suggestion they're conspiring to hide the true situation. That's nuts. Codemasters and the people who work for them have a professional reputation.

He's probably telling the truth but it's really not that "nuts" to think he would say only positive things about both platforms. I don't get why you think it's some crazy thing.

 

[Deleted member 11852]

He's probably telling the truth but it's really not that "nuts" to think he would say only positive things about both platforms. I don't get why you think it's some crazy thing.

Lying, and even misleading, doesn't come easy to me. Professionally or personally, I would not be willing to misrepresent anything because ultimately it's my reputation on the line.

What possible reasons would Codemasters have to be anything other than truthful? Again, if asked a question and the answer is a bit negative you can simply say you can't talk about the issue. Most things relating to console development are under NDA, it's an easy dodge. Say nothing or lie? Oh no.. what shall I do!?!? They weren't talking about PlayStation at all, it was all about the Xbox versions.

 

[Deleted member 7537]

I think what the Codemaster dev said is not incompatible with the game being released on a rush because of tight deadlines and COVID. You could have the best "tools" in the industry but that doesn't guarantee anything. Tools evolve and mature and there are still games that launch on a precarious state way late in the generation.

I guess their priority was focused on releasing a playable game and then fix the rest.

edit: And the issue here is not that game on XBSX has issues, but that there was this expectation created where we were going to see 2x pixels difference and things like that. Total nonsense. It AC:V had launched with loads of screen tearing on Xbox but rendering at 4K native, and the PS5 version ran at 1800p, a lot of people would not have an issue with AC:V Xbox Series X poor performance.

 

[VitaminB6]

Lying, and even misleading, doesn't come easy to me. Professionally or personally, I would not be willing to misrepresent anything because ultimately it's my reputation on the line.

What possible reasons would Codemasters have to be anything other than truthful? Again, if asked a question and the answer is a bit negative you can simply say you can't talk about the issue. Most things relating to console development are under NDA, it's an easy dodge. Say nothing or lie? Oh no.. what shall I do!?!? They weren't talking about PlayStation at all, it was all about the Xbox versions.

A guy doing an interview to highlight the release of his new game on Xbox doesn't want to dump on Xbox. Weird. I respect your opinion but I can't get on the same page with you. I'm moving on.

 

[Deleted member 11852]

A guy doing an interview to highlight the release of his new game on Xbox doesn't want to dump on Xbox. Weird. I respect your opinion but I can't get on the same page with you. I'm moving on.

You don't have to dump on Xbox, instead don't answer the question. It's PR 101.

 

[VitaminB6]

You don't have to dump on Xbox, instead don't answer the question. It's PR 101.

Maybe he is not trained in PR 101 and was put on the spot. Again I've already entertained that you are most likely right. The fact that you can't even fathom anything else is the reason we should move on.

 

[Shortbread]

He's probably telling the truth but it's really not that "nuts" to think he would say only positive things about both platforms. I don't get why you think it's some crazy thing.

I think this cuts both ways. More than likely there are some developers who are having issues with transitioning from prior MS SDKs over to the newer GDK environment, and possibly lacking certain tools and updates which Microsoft hasn’t released yet. But at the same time, there may be certain developers whom transitioned to the GDK environment with very little fuss, and aren’t experiencing as many difficulties as others. As for tools improvements, this isn’t nothing new. Both companies will be improving their toolsets day-in and day-out… right up to the next launch of their next-generation systems.

 

[function]

It will be interesting to see what this new Assassins Creed patch brings, but I'm not expecting big changes from either platform in terms of overall performance. Any changes could as easily benefit the PS5, relatively, as the XSX has more tearing to overcome which might cost a little bit in terms of overhead (e.g. what was tearing now manifests as slightly lower resolutions more often).

Perhaps the 30 fps modes will give us a little more insight into these systems though. A higher res, lower frame rate option might move bottlenecks a little from geometry towards pixel shading - if geometry LOD stays the same.

Who knows. Probably nothing big whatever happens, but we're current in the realm of very small percentage differences on the whole anyway (weird dips aside), so why not throw some more gasoline on the speculation bonfire...