Current console sales prove consoles aren't doomed afterall *spawn

[tuna]

My point is that in general technology improves every year. You can't base your expectations of the future based on the way things are right now. Ten years is a long time.

Technology improves because some people give a shit about it and put resources into it. Look at space rockets. Nothing has really happened since the 70s there.

If Apple, Google, Intel and others gave a shit about wireless video latency they would improve it. Nothing in the actual real world points to that though....

 

[Deleted member 11852]

Oh, and mice in parallel. 2010 introduced touch. So expecting things to have changed with mobile devices in only four years seems pretty extreme.

And although touch only became "a thing" for gaming around 2008 (first native iPhone games) touch technology had been bubbling away in R&D since the 1980s. My first [capacitive] touch device was probably a Palm or Psion PDA in the early 1990s and it's taken a long time to improve detection accuracy and introduce multitouch detection before it was really viable for anything remotely complicated and latency sensitive.

 

[Rangers]

If this was the case we would have seen that tvs would get less and less input lag. Do you think that this is the case?

Actually, the focus in gamer circles on input lag HAS resulted in manufacturers beginning to pay some attention to it, and come up with some pretty decent gaming modes that actually work (in the past sometimes game mode would do nothing). Which is a positive change in TV landscape the last 3-4 years (of course given that we're working with an inherently laggy technology to begin with currently).

 

[Shifty Geezer]

Can you get an all in one, plug n play solution for just 299-399 on pc though? Not realistically.

Not for that low price yet. We're talking the future. The tiny, plug in PC exists now, but at the budget price with powerful enough integrated graphics, it's not console quality yet. But it will be.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Lenovo-Desk...qid=1420709663&sr=8-5&keywords=ultra+small+PC

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Intel-DC321...id=1420709598&sr=8-14&keywords=ultra+small+PC

These things are too small for a console! And yes, I know they'll never be as cheap as a console due to buying power and hardware manufacturers needing a profit on hardware for PC, but the price differential probably won't be too great. That could change next gen if Sony/MS release a lossy monster once again - anyone think that's likely? Hell, MS would be happier if everyone switched to PC and used Windows store (whatever version it is).

PC is there for the even-more-core.

Assuming they never change, that'll be true. But things are happening to make them easier to use, like Windows' simpler front ends and Steam Big Picture, and controller support. Steam is now 100 million users and they don't reset each generation. I now have a Steam account where I never had one, and now I have the option of switching to PC (and getting a small form factor, or a more powerful rig - my choice) and still getting broadly the console experience but also full compatibility and yada yada PC master race. 5 years ago I was saying PC isn't a suitable replacement for console. Now I'm saying it's okay, specially for the more tech enthusiast (perhaps not for Joe Mainstream just yet), but it's going to get better and more console like. Many of the indie games coming on PS4, I can get on PC.

Things are very different now and moving ever closer to convergence.

 

[goonergaz]

Things are very different now and moving ever closer to convergence.

Closer for the tech minded folk who don't mind complications over and above console gaming. Not mass market.

Think about it - at the very basic level; how many different chat options on PC? How many different ways & places to buy games? How many different controllers (let alone types)? Then get into the more technical aspects like how many different OSs? How many different hardware setups? And that's not even looking into the whole driver/updates side of things where my PS4 automatically updates everything while I sleep.

No matter how much you wish it PCs will never be the console experience.

 

[Deleted member 86764]

5 years ago I was saying PC isn't a suitable replacement for console. Now I'm saying it's okay...

I think you're wrong with this; PCs won't ever replace consoles. Unless you're suggesting some server PC hosting streamed games with a pretty and easy to use front-end. Streaming will kill dedicated PC hardware just as quickly as it'll kill consoles.

Personally, I don't ever see myself going back to PC gaming. Regardless of whether I can play games in higher resolution/frame rates/graphical settings. The console experience, for me, will always win.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

Closer for the tech minded folk who don't mind complications over and above console gaming. Not mass market.

Yes, I said that. I did not say PC's will replace consoles for all console gamers. I said PC will take a portion of console gamers.

Think about it - at the very basic level; how many different chat options on PC? How many different ways & places to buy games? How many different controllers (let alone types)?

XB360/XB1/DS3 controller. And Steam. Job done, not complicated, you get close to the console experience. That's what I have right now, and can play Awesomenauts, a game I originally bought on PS3, with controller and the whole basic console experience, plus with significant updates which the PS3 version never got. If you want to add more marketplaces for more games, you can, which is an option you don't have on consoles. A game you want isn't available on your console store? Tough. A game you want isn't available on Steam but is available on GOG. Go get it! And let's not pretend consoles are a completely unified experience. I've had to create accounts for different publishers to play console games. And let's not pretend that the current state of PC is going to remain the way it is forever. It has improved dramatically over time, and will continue to do so.

No matter how much you wish it PCs will never be the console experience.

I don't wish it. Why would I wish it?! What's in it for me?

 

[goonergaz]

Yes, I said that. I did not say PC's will replace consoles for all console gamers. I said PC will take a portion of console gamers.

A very small portion maybe, but as I already said - most PC gamers will just buy a console as well.

XB360/XB1/DS3 controller. And Steam. Job done, not complicated, you get close to the console experience.

You mean, buy that specific contoller - add the dongle - set it up, install steam, install the voice comms software of choice, setup all the passwords etc - yes, just like the console 'plug and play' experience.

If you want to add more marketplaces for more games, you can, which is an option you don't have on consoles.

Because you don't need it.

A game you want isn't available on Steam but is available on GOG. Go get it!

And while you're at it get that game on Origin, and also the one on Unity. You want Elite? Cool - go sign up to yet another service with another username and password...I wonder how many more ways to buy games can be added to this system you think is becoming simpler.

And let's not pretend consoles are a completely unified experience. I've had to create accounts for different publishers to play console games.

Sorry - what games are those? You've lost me, there are options to do so but it's not required.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

You mean, buy that specific contoller - add the dongle

Are you living in the dark ages? You don't need dongles to run controllers!

set it up

Plug and play.

install steam

Oh noes, the agony! Clearly this is beyond the capabilities of a simple console user who needs an all-in-one box. Not even 5% of console user are able to deal with the complexities of installing Steam on a PC, so the console market can't lose more than 5% to PCs. It's saved!

install the voice comms software of choice, setup all the passwords etc - yes, just like the console 'plug and play' experience.

I didn't say it was just like the console 'plug and play' experience.

Ah, forget it. Everyone's so damned partisan there's no sane discussion to be had. People can't even follow the arguments.

 

[goonergaz]

I need a dongle - why don't you? I guess that's your unified PC experience eh? The point about installing steam was it's another username password red-tape thing that you don't need to do on consoles (just one account for all).

From a personal point of view a recent issue I had was after re-installing Windows. I had a couple of main issues that go some way to explain why I think PCs will never replace consoles and might go some way to explain why I am the way I am!!

The first was getting the X360 controller dongle to work again, I had to do some research and found out that I had to download a specific file and place it in a specific folder. Even then to get the controller to work I need to 'run' the application before I start the game or it won't work.

Another issue was I wasted ages trying to figure out where my copy of Far Cry Dragon Blood had got to, I installed steam (and obviously had to go through the whole re-registering process which was fun) and it wasn't there. I installed Origin and after having to reset my password I didn't see it there. In the end I found out it was on Uplay. To be honest I've spent more time trying to find the game than playing it!

And that's always been my issue with PCs, I waste too much time tinkering and fixing things, reading up which is the best this or that and how to make certain games run the best way - where consoles just 'work'.

I just don't see why your scenario is better than mine, let me put it another way, for something to die (or become something of the past) then something better needs to replace it. Your solution is not better (unless I'm missing something) and tablets are not better. Even in a few years that's unlikely to change and then we'll be talking about PS5 - PCs will always be for the tech-minded gamer with cash to spare and tablets for the casual gamer...I can only see streaming being a viable alternative but the tech is years away.

 

[London Geezer]

I wanted to take the discussion back to basics to explain how I feel about this whole 'console gaming dying vs PC'. It's all about semantics vs practice.

In my own personal opinion, the day PCs will become cheap and simpler enough to just plug in a TV and play, with controllers, that's the day they will have become consoles.

What are consoles today anyway? Simpler PCs with a closed online and distribution echosystem, which we plug into our TVs and play with controllers.

Plugging a PC to the TV and playing games with a controller is, for all intents and purposes, console gaming. Yes there might be an install (already every game on consoles installs to hard drive), yes there might be a choice between controllers, but in practice there's little difference.

If Apple make a console, what will it be? A Mac computer which they will simply call a 'console'. Google? Same but based on Android. What was the first Xbox and what has carried over to current generations? A PC we plugged into our TVs.

So perhaps this is not a discussion about 'console vs PC' gaming, but about the feared death of 'living room gaming', regardless of what we want to call the device we plug into our TVs, cause ultimately they're already PCs.

And what I'd call 'living room, big TV gaming with controllers' will not die any time soon, and certainly not from smartphone/tablet gaming.

Besides, the day we plug (even wirelessly) a tablet to a TV to then play its games with a controller, won't that be the day that tablet effectively becomes a console?

I'm so deep.

 

[deckard]

I wanted to take the discussion back to basics to explain how I feel about this whole 'console gaming dying vs PC'. It's all about semantics vs practice.

In my own personal opinion, the day PCs will become cheap and simpler enough to just plug in a TV and play, with controllers, that's the day they will have become consoles.

What are consoles today anyway? Simpler PCs with a closed online and distribution echosystem, which we plug into our TVs and play with controllers.

Plugging a PC to the TV and playing games with a controller is, for all intents and purposes, console gaming. Yes there might be an install (already every game on consoles installs to hard drive), yes there might be a choice between controllers, but in practice there's little difference.

If Apple make a console, what will it be? A Mac computer which they will simply call a 'console'. Google? Same but based on Android. What was the first Xbox and what has carried over to current generations? A PC we plugged into our TVs.

So perhaps this is not a discussion about 'console vs PC' gaming, but about the feared death of 'living room gaming', regardless of what we want to call the device we plug into our TVs, cause ultimately they're already PCs.

And what I'd call 'living room, big TV gaming with controllers' will not die any time soon, and certainly not from smartphone/tablet gaming.

Besides, the day we plug (even wirelessly) a tablet to a TV to then play its games with a controller, won't that be the day that tablet effectively becomes a console?

I'm so deep.

I think the issue that many have is still a "Them and Us" approach to Consoles Vs PC and this does kind of cull the argument and empathy from both sides.

PC's are not a fixed all in one, simple or even as manageable physically as a console.

Consoles do not offer the open choice, pick what suits you design. They are both just very different devices (from a design/aim perspective not a hardware one) calling a consoles nothing more than a PC is like calling a Tablet or phone a PC they are not. What they are is dedicated Consumer electronic devices that are far more ergonomically designed and specific than a Personal Computer is, both have and will co-exist so long as there is a market for them and right now we can see their is and most likely will continue to be as they serve a purpose and that is simple/impressive and instant entertainment.

Just like in the hardware they are designed and fixed to be the best working form for purpose (within obvious compromises like cost/TDP etc) than a varied selection of off the shelf PC parts (which offer far greater scope/power at what ever cost/time you want to apply to it) ever will. Not only that but they allow developers to tailor code and improve to try new things and ultimately push visuals/design and the one thing they are intended for games as far as possible. We have had PC hardware more than capable to produce games we have seen in the last 12 months for the last 2 years, we haven't because the single biggest convergence that consoles bring is the talent pool and supplemented cost of the development. As long as the masses like wow and visual splendour (as we see the ever continued out do in CGI movies and AAA action blockbusters continue) and we all do this is still one of the biggest draws but by embracing other parts of the market (like indie revisit) then they can offer both new and fresh games along with greater visuals and newer experiences , VR is going to be in headlines this year alot but not just from the PC OR but also Sony's Morpheus solution again and I am sure that Sony's solution will be the simpler implemented of the 2.

 

[Prophecy2k]

I wanted to take the discussion back to basics to explain how I feel about this whole 'console gaming dying vs PC'. It's all about semantics vs practice.

In my own personal opinion, the day PCs will become cheap and simpler enough to just plug in a TV and play, with controllers, that's the day they will have become consoles.

What are consoles today anyway? Simpler PCs with a closed online and distribution echosystem, which we plug into our TVs and play with controllers.

Plugging a PC to the TV and playing games with a controller is, for all intents and purposes, console gaming. Yes there might be an install (already every game on consoles installs to hard drive), yes there might be a choice between controllers, but in practice there's little difference.

If Apple make a console, what will it be? A Mac computer which they will simply call a 'console'. Google? Same but based on Android. What was the first Xbox and what has carried over to current generations? A PC we plugged into our TVs.

So perhaps this is not a discussion about 'console vs PC' gaming, but about the feared death of 'living room gaming', regardless of what we want to call the device we plug into our TVs, cause ultimately they're already PCs.

And what I'd call 'living room, big TV gaming with controllers' will not die any time soon, and certainly not from smartphone/tablet gaming.

Besides, the day we plug (even wirelessly) a tablet to a TV to then play its games with a controller, won't that be the day that tablet effectively becomes a console?

I'm so deep.

I disagree, but only in the sense that I think like others here, you're only definining a console and hence its value, by its hardware.

In fact a console is mainly a computer, but one designed with a SOFTWARE system that is wholly dedicated to games. Their value is in the convenience factor of being to buy a game, slip in the disk and be playing within a very short amount of time.

No matter how much PC's evolve. The majority will run windows, which is not a videogame-orientated OS. Neither is iOS or Android for that matter (however they're much better than windows in this regard).

PC's will never "become" consoles as long as they run windows. And things like SteamOS will never take off, because the moment a PC stops running windows, it stops becoming a PC for the majority of mainstream users.

Consoles benefit from things like software stability, ease of use, time from boot-into-game, software support, price/performance, convenience, etc etc, all because of their closed box nature that PC's and windows will never enjoy.

It's that whole idea that I can own a physical copy of COD #76262 and take it round to my friend's place, boot up his PS4, slap in the disk and be playing within a matter of minutes. As opposed to go round to his place, boot up his PC, find someway to connect it to the TV, boot steam, log-in on my account, d/l the game, wait for it to install, boot up the game, find that some issue liek sound doesn't work properly on his config, start googling for a fix and finally have to fiddle with some config file setting to fix the issue before we can play.

It's just not the same and never will be as a console.

 

[goonergaz]

calling a consoles nothing more than a PC is like calling a Tablet or phone a PC they are not.

I don't think it was meant litterally, you're both right in that respect. After all wasn't the original XBox based on the idea of a 'PC Direct X box'?

 

[London Geezer]

We all know the obvious differences today between a console and a PC.

My point is that when we will be plugging a device to a TV permanently to play games with a controller, then that device will take the place of a console. A PC plugged to a big TV to play games would not be used to work. It's to play games. You can call it Donut, but in practice that is a console.

Yes, yes, PCs are open and Windows and all the rest. More options, more flavours. But what you would be doing with it the moment you plug it to a TV is playing games (or movies, or anything else we do for our entertainment on our consoles of today).

Not many people would actually take a PC and move it from their desk to the TV whenever they want to either work or play games. That device would end up sitting permanently under/next to the TV to play games . That's a console, even though it's called PC.

And you would have another, separate device to 'work with', which would be a tablet or a laptop or anything.

A Permanently-plugged-to-the-TV-PC-with-controllers is a console!

I'm not defining a console by its hardware, I'm defining it by its purpose. Console = big TV + controllers + living room. Or bedroom, and perhaps not a big TV but that's beside the point.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

I disagree, but only in the sense that I think like others here, you're only definining a console and hence its value, by its hardware.

There is nothing stopping MS bringing everything Xbox to PC. And when Windows 10/11 comes with boot into Xbox mode, and games run on VMs and don't care one jot about hardware, and you have a unified XB store front, PC becomes XBox (which was MS's plan all along). The only thing stopping that so far is MS's inability to carry it off! But it'll happen. While Valve compete with their own front end. And other computing boxes do the same.

 

[Prophecy2k]

There is nothing stopping MS bringing everything Xbox to PC. And when Windows 10/11 comes with boot into Xbox mode, and games run on VMs and don't care one jot about hardware, and you have a unified XB store front, PC becomes XBox (which was MS's plan all along). The only thing stopping that so far is MS's inability to carry it off! But it'll happen. While Valve compete with their own front end. And other computing boxes do the same.

Can't argue with this Shifty, I gotta admit. That would be something interesting

 

[London Geezer]

Shifty and his daddy agree. This is the end.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

And again, it'll still only be part of the current market. There'll still be Sony loyalists keen to play Sony 1st parties and not content with PSNow, and no doubt Nintendo loyalists. It's just the overlap with competition keeps increasing.

I keep trying to think of a diagram but can't envisage anything other than a 6 dimensional Venn diagram which no-one's invented a display that can show, nor a brain that can perceive.

 

[Deleted member 86764]

There is nothing stopping MS bringing everything Xbox to PC. And when Windows 10/11 comes with boot into Xbox mode, and games run on VMs and don't care one jot about hardware, and you have a unified XB store front, PC becomes XBox (which was MS's plan all along). The only thing stopping that so far is MS's inability to carry it off! But it'll happen. While Valve compete with their own front end. And other computing boxes do the same.

I imagine it'd upset an awful lot of people. How many PC gamers want to have their platform unified and consistent across all machines? That removes the PC gamers' desire for the platform.

If Microsoft did this it would probably upset a huge amount of PC guys and possibly a large number of Xboxers.