Current console sales prove consoles aren't doomed afterall *spawn

[goonergaz]

@goonergaz You're talking about building a PC to match a console at the end of the consoles generation. There's no way I'd build a PC with console-like specs six or seven years after the console was released.

I was suggesting more that a few years before the PS4 people could cheaply build PCs that substantially outperform consoles and play the same games with much better performance at a lower cost - heck I tend to do that, but I rarely buy PC games even though I go through all that trouble because I then remember how much of a pain PCs are to keep updated and remember which account has which game and which password (etc).

But if I could build a PC or buy a laptop for maybe a few hundred mores at the start of a console generation, or first half, and expect similar performance from games, that's entirely different.

Well you could this gen.

PC can still be a bit of a mess for me. Windows10 is on its way, and so are Directx12 and Mantle.

I find PCs are like groundhog day for me, Direct X was supposed to make things easier - and here we are hoping DX12 will be the saviour! lol

 

[Prophecy2k]

The last couple of years did a lot of damage to serious gaming on mobile devices and left a shit load of "real" gamers who were looking forward to a resurgence of the old wild west style of game development utterly disillusioned, rightfully fed up and deeply cynical. So no, I don't think that this is a case of if-we-make-it-they'll-come anymore. I'm also most definitely not going to pay the equivalent of a console game's price point for a mobile game which was built around lowest-common-denominator-touch-controls, regardless if I can plug in an optional controller or not. Then there's the whole storage space issue. Current big scale games are huge.

This is absolutely true. The tend for big game publishers on mobile platforms is to nickel, dime and rinse every potential penny from mobile gamers as possible by shitting their games up the wazzoo with IAPs and microtransactions, actual game design be damned.

Frankly I simply cannot see a console gamer exodus to mobile in the near or distant future. The two dominant platforms have become toxic for "console quality/experience" gaming, and there's even less chance that another mobile platform player is going to come in and do anything meaningful.

If Consoles do eventually die off, it'll be by some other device that fundamentally beats it at what it does best. Currently, and for the foreseeable future, mobile platforms aren't it. I think the mistake many are making is with too great a focus on the rapid advancement in mobile HW, when it's predominantly the business factors that will keep AAA console class gaming all but entirely dead on iOS/Android.

Streaming will never be a viable solution imho. As console gaming by definition has always been about conveniece, and being able to be in more or less complete control over the gaming experience. Streaming issues don't jsu tend with connection BW, but holds the potential for all kinds of extraneous issues like weird LAN network router issues that require unwashed un-tech savvy folks to have to start doing crap like forwarding ports just to be able to play. Nah! Never gonna fly. Likewise, streaming games on mobile over a mobile data connection would be even less fun, given the additional lag and woefully in adequate mobile network infrastructure in most parts of the world (I live in the middle of London and still can't get a signal on my O2 phone in my living room).

 

[Scott_Arm]

I was suggesting more that a few years before the PS4 people could cheaply build PCs that substantially outperform consoles and play the same games with much better performance at a lower cost - heck I tend to do that, but I rarely buy PC games even though I go through all that trouble because I then remember how much of a pain PCs are to keep updated and remember which account has which game and which password (etc).

Well you could this gen.

I find PCs are like groundhog day for me, Direct X was supposed to make things easier - and here we are hoping DX12 will be the saviour! lol

I don't really know how that can be true. The cost of buying Windows, a case, keyboard and mouse, HDD let alone adding in a controller basically comes to approaching the cost of buying a console.

To me the change comes if I've already got a PC, tablet, laptop, hybrid ... whatever ... and I look at the $200-400 price of a console and decide that it doesn't provide me with something I don't already have. It will obviously take a while to get there.

 

[Deleted member 11852]

I would think people buy consoles because the games available on them aren't elsewhere, or if they are the ease of use is so much higher that it's worth it, or couch coop/vs, or having high quality graphics (although a competing platform does better.)

This is me. I can certainly afford to built an insane PC and hook it up to the TV but the reason I have owned four PlayStations is a) the exclusives and b) the controller-centric operation. I really don't want to have to keep a keyboard and mouse hanging around to keep the thing up to date. If SteamOS solves this, I'll take another look but it won't solve the exclusives problem.

The PS4 is far for perfect but it remains more convenient for my sporadic gaming needs than the PC platform, for the type of games I like to play on the TV. I still play plenty of games on the iMac under Windows.

 

[goonergaz]

I don't really know how that can be true. The cost of buying Windows, a case, keyboard and mouse, HDD let alone adding in a controller basically comes to approaching the cost of buying a console.

There were a few magazines at the time, I have one at home because I found it an interesting read.

To me the change comes if I've already got a PC, tablet, laptop, hybrid ... whatever ... and I look at the $200-400 price of a console and decide that it doesn't provide me with something I don't already have. It will obviously take a while to get there.

Well there are many people out there with PCs this good (and even better than PS4/XBO) yet they still buy a console.

I guess the question is 'if money is important what's the best solution' because if money is tight you will be part of the mass market who buys consoles when the price drops so you'll never have a PC *that* good. Not only that but early adopters will always buy the consoles so they will always survive, ergo, unless some magical alternative alien solution magically appears mid-gen at a really REALLY good price then consoles are here to stay.

 

[goonergaz]

This is me. I can certainly afford to built an insane PC and hook it up to the TV but the reason I have owned four PlayStations is a) the exclusives and b) the controller-centric operation. I really don't want to have to keep a keyboard and mouse hanging around to keep the thing up to date. If SteamOS solves this, I'll take another look but it won't solve the exclusives problem.

The PS4 is far for perfect but it remains more convenient for my sporadic gaming needs than the PC platform, for the type of games I like to play on the TV. I still play plenty of games on the iMac under Windows.

Pretty much sums me up too - and it's a great point, today people have so much more spare cash they can build this 'super PC' and even save money via the games (so it's a wash) - but they don't because of exclusives - ease of use - controllers, everything is so much simpler - sure I can buy a controller for PC - but which one...there's so many!?

Maybe the steambox is the answer but I really don't think so - I think the mindset for consoles is already set.

 

[Rangers]

Frankly I simply cannot see a console gamer exodus to mobile in the near or distant future. The two dominant platforms have become toxic for "console quality/experience" gaming, and there's even less chance that another mobile platform player is going to come in and do anything meaningful.

If Consoles do eventually die off, it'll be by some other device that fundamentally beats it at what it does best. Currently, and for the foreseeable future, mobile platforms aren't it. I think the mistake many are making is with too great a focus on the rapid advancement in mobile HW, when it's predominantly the business factors that will keep AAA console class gaming all but entirely dead on iOS/Android.

Pretty much. Multiple factors:

-Touch controls. These are the dealbreaker that will prevent core gamers from embracing mobile as they dont offer precise control. Any aftermarket solution (bluetooth controllers) will never catch on IMO, as it's too much trouble, expense, and fundamentally changes the nature of the experience. The controls have to be the default offered, even the smallest effort required to change the default makes it something that will never gain traction.

-There's no development budgets on mobile that approach those on console (people want their games to be 9.99 or less on mobile, most are free2play, hell 9.99 even sounds insane!). So regardless of any of the other issues, that one is a insurmountable roadblock.

These above two are the biggest and complement each other imo. Also:

-Technical superiority of consoles. it does exist, in whatever degree, and should continue to for the forseeable future.

-Power usage. even if you get a mobile chipset that challenges home consoles, it will need to be tethered to a power cord for serious use, rendering it rather immobile in the first place, like a console.

I do believe mobile can chip away at the edges of core gaming, and has, but never seriously threaten it.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

I would think people buy consoles because the games available on them aren't elsewhere, or if they are the ease of use is so much higher that it's worth it, or couch coop/vs, or having high quality graphics (although a competing platform does better.).

There's nothing about consoles that makes them better at that then other devices though. It's only software that's differentiating, and more and more is becoming cross platform such that even couch coop is appearing on PC.

 

[Scott_Arm]

I can easily imagine a future where you dock your tablet, something like a Surface Pro, use WHDI or WiDi to display on your tv, and have a wireless controller, smartphone, voice control etc to interact with it. AMD APUs and Intel CPUs with integrated graphics both came out around 2010? They're pretty recent products and are only now getting serious investment. Yes, mobile devices would always have a disadvantage if they weren't plugged in to a power source, but it's not an impossible problem to solve, considering how many people have mobile devices that they plug in daily. That's especially true if your display is driven wirelessly and the tablet doesn't even need to be in the same room.

Consoles always had a hardware advantage because they were sold at a loss. I'm not sure we're ever going back there again. Until the mid 2000s, the mobile market was essentially non-existent, so there was no investment. Now investment in that space is huge. The technology is growing rapidly.

 

[wco81]

Well I was one of those who questioned if the console market had the same growth potential as in previous generations.

But since just a year ago, iPad sales have flattened and presumably it's similar for other name-brand tablets. Some of that may be due to large screen phones and some may be due to the fact that tablets are good for several years, not every two years like phones, which is when people typically upgrade.

Especially in games, there is no market for high-performance or higher-priced games. Instead you see a bunch of commercials all the time for Game of War, Clash of Clans and Boom Beach type of games which are freemium games. They must be making good coin to be able to advertise on TV so much.

So even as tablets become more powerful every year, the tablet games market isn't geared towards "console-quality" games.

 

[tuna]

I can easily imagine a future where you dock your tablet, something like a Surface Pro, use WHDI or WiDi to display on your tv, and have a wireless controller, smartphone, voice control etc to interact with it.

Do you know how much lag is included in those protocols?

 

[Scott_Arm]

Yah, but telling me what the market is right now, where you can't get console quality games on a tablet device doesn't really tell me what it will be like five to ten years from now. It's like saying no one would ever do significant web browsing, or run apps on their iPhones in 2008 because Blackberries in 2003 weren't very good at anything but email.

 

[Deleted member 11852]

Crossy Road eats all my spare time It runs on pretty much any hardware.

 

[tuna]

It's like saying no one would ever do significant web browsing, or run apps on their iPhones in 2008 because Blackberries in 2003 weren't very good at anything but email.

You got new input system with iPhones compared to Blackberries. If we get a (traditional) game oriented input system for phones and tablets that could change things.

 

[Scott_Arm]

Do you know how much lag is included in those protocols?

I'm sure it's significant, and will lessen with each revision as there is more investment in the technology. You know, how technology gets better over time and what's terrible five years ago can suddenly become awesome sooner than later.

 

[tuna]

I'm sure it's significant, and will lessen with each revision as there is more investment in the technology. You know, how technology gets better over time and what's terrible five years ago can suddenly become awesome sooner than later.

If this was the case we would have seen that tvs would get less and less input lag. Do you think that this is the case?

 

[Scott_Arm]

If this was the case we would have seen that tvs would get less and less input lag. Do you think that this is the case?

It's definitely true of LCD monitors. They're improved massively in just about every measure-able way. And there are some LCD tvs with very good input lag. The difference is tvs are primary marketed for television and movies, so their focus is on developing image processing to make the image look "better" vs input lag concerns for gaming. Wireless latency is an interesting problem.

My point is that in general technology improves every year. You can't base your expectations of the future based on the way things are right now. Ten years is a long time. Pick any ten year time span from the 80s until now and really think about how much things changed over that span. It's pretty amazing.

 

[wco81]

Yah, but telling me what the market is right now, where you can't get console quality games on a tablet device doesn't really tell me what it will be like five to ten years from now. It's like saying no one would ever do significant web browsing, or run apps on their iPhones in 2008 because Blackberries in 2003 weren't very good at anything but email.

Well the period before and after the intro of the iPhone is different than going forward from now, when tablets are pretty much established and defined.

Other than form factors and maybe some form of multi window multitasking, it's hard to imagine tablets changing without increasing price to add additional capabilities. The trend if anything is towards lower prices.

As for tablet gaming, it's evolved quite a bit since 2010 but the input/control is the same. It's just the business model is to have freemium games. That seems to be the most popular and apparently works well enough for more and more games in this format.

If a sizable market for tablet games priced above $20-30 ever developed, then maybe we'd have a different discussion.

But the fact is, these freemium or cheap games are good enough for most console and phone users, many of whom also game on consoles. Don't underestimate "good enough."

 

[Shifty Geezer]

As for tablet gaming, it's evolved quite a bit since 2010 but the input/control is the same.

Four years. What's the development of game input been since 1970? We had twist controllers, then joysticks for eons, then D-Pads, add thumbsticks. Oh, and mice in parallel. 2010 introduced touch. So expecting things to have changed with mobile devices in only four years seems pretty extreme. I think people forget how young tablets are!

Controllers aren't likely to become common as long as tablets are only used in portable fashion. But tablets on the TV is now becoming normal, and it only makes sense that controllers will follow.

 

[Rangers]

There's nothing about consoles that makes them better at that then other devices though. It's only software that's differentiating, and more and more is becoming cross platform such that even couch coop is appearing on PC.

Can you get an all in one, plug n play solution for just 299-399 on pc though? Not realistically. Not too mention a lot of platform holder money expended on advanced UI and software on Xbox/Playstation/Wii.

It's kind of tough to match the exact experience consoles offer.

PC is there for the even-more-core.

Also worth noting since we have mentioned tablets often, AFAIK the tablet market itself is on a sales downswing. Because of the increase of "Phablet" phones making them a bit redundant. Although that's just calling them something different. But it still limits to a probably 5-6" screen.