Cube maxed out???

[jvd]

I feel out of xbox , gc and ps2 its the gamecube that is the least maxed out. If you ask me nicely i will share my opinon with ya .

[i'm going]

go on, jvd, why do u think?

personally i think none of them will EVER be maxed out, since the very word "maxing out" is pretty much meaningless. there will always be different or better ways to improve performance...

i think PS2 will be the one that will ultimately come farthest from maxing out, if only for the fact that it's the most "open" architecture.

i think the Xbox will be the one coming closest to be "maxed out" since it is after all the most PC-friendly console out now, meaning pretty much everything about the hardware is known.

the GC might be maxed out MAYBE by factor5. i am skeptical, and personally i dont see the GC being maxed out for the simple fact that the interest might not be there at all.

Well its simple . Only a handfull of talented devs are working on gamecube games . Most are only on thier second gen games. There for not as much reserch has been put into gc tech and dev . Sony has some companys on thier 4th or 5th game. Many of them long ago moved away from the tools sony gave them . Ms has a pc system basicly. Most of the hardware has been around for years . Many tweaks have already been found for the hardware . Not only that but variations of the tech have allso been around for ages.

Thank you for asking londin boy .

 

[London Geezer]

yep, pretty much my views...

 

[Blade]

I recall that we were promised a constant 60fps for Rogue Leader, too.. and only got that on one or two missions.

 

[Teasy]

I recall that we were promised a constant 60fps for Rogue Leader, too.. and only got that on one or two missions.

Rogue Leader was extremely rushed in the end though. A lot of stuff was done weeks and even days before release with Rogue Leader. For instance they actually had no water in the game less then 2 weeks before it released! With Rebel Strike they seem far less rushed.

 

[Steve Dave Part Deux]

By playing Luigi's Mansion and SH3 succesively I've come to the conclusion that LM has a more impressive engine than SH3. Other than the color banding and dithering issues, you can take SH3, calculate ALL the lighting per-pixel, improve the animation 4x, implement a robust cloth simulation and physics system, and you have Luigi's Mansion. Sorry for the OT. GC still has a lot of tricks up its sleeve, and I think some very unique and suprisingly beautiful looking games are still possible with some effort.

 

[zurich]

By playing Luigi's Mansion and SH3 succesively I've come to the conclusion that LM has a more impressive engine than SH3. Other than the color banding and dithering issues, you can take SH3, calculate ALL the lighting per-pixel, improve the animation 4x, implement a robust cloth simulation and physics system, and you have Luigi's Mansion. Sorry for the OT. GC still has a lot of tricks up its sleeve, and I think some very unique and suprisingly beautiful looking games are still possible with some effort.

If you say so! How about procedural textures? Depth of Field? Self shadowing?

 

[Steve Dave Part Deux]

Most of the objects in LM do project shadows onto themselves, though the animated characters don't appear to. I'm not at all familiar with procedural texturing, although I assume it is a technique used to shrink the memory footprint as opposed to traditional explicit representations. I'm not entirely sure why using procedural representations of data would make an engine superior since it's just substituting one inherently limited resource for another(memory space for cpu cycles). Obviously, the technique is used very effectively in SH3, the textures on average are much sharper than those in LM. Are height maps considered a form of procedural texturing since texture coordinates are derived from the positions of the vertices? The DOF is also well-done, though isn't it primarily used in cutscenes(where the cinematic quality demands it)? Obviously I am grossly generalizing the qualities of both games just to make the point that LM was torn down for being a dud when it was released 2 years ago, while SH3 is being praised as a technical marvel two years later, and I think it is debatable as to which is the techincally more advanced game(which is what I should have said in my first post).

 

[Ozymandis]

just to make the point that LM was torn down for being a dud when it was released 2 years ago,

I don't recall Luigi's Mansion being torn down for being a technical failure. I do recall the game being dismissed because of its extremely mediocre gameplay.

 

[Blade]

Ozy: You don't post for a month and then suddenly when the chance arises..?

The gameplay scope was limited. You can only do so much in the way that they laid it out. For what it had, it was good IMO.

'Course, we're going off-topic. I gotta say that LM, apparently being a tech demo transformed into a game.. is obviously impressive on the graphical end of things. It was put together to show what the GameCube could do, on a basic level.

Zurich: Uh, LM doesn't have many/any places where DOF could really be used very well. It was a tight action/puzzle game, not allowing much movement.. unlike an open game like Zelda:WW or Mario Sunshine that actually uses DOF..

 

[Ozymandis]

Ozy: You don't post for a month and then suddenly when the chance arises..?

The gameplay scope was limited. You can only do so much in the way that they laid it out. For what it had, it was good IMO.

'Course, we're going off-topic. I gotta say that LM, apparently being a tech demo transformed into a game.. is obviously impressive on the graphical end of things. It was put together to show what the GameCube could do, on a basic level.

You know I can't miss out on a chance to rake Luigi's Mansion over the flames one last time

As a first-generation tech demo LM was impressive enough, certainly. As a game that retailed for 50 dollars and even at its current 30 dollar price tag, it was a disappointment and a failure. The gameplay scope was VERY limited, and just not very interesting.

Cloth effects and lighting were nice though 8)

 

[Natoma]

It's funny whenever people say hardware is maxed out. Pundits said the SNES was maxed out mid 90's, and then Nintendo pulled Starfox, Donkey Kong Country, and Yoshi's Island out their arse to show that it still had much life in it.

People said the N64 was maxed, and then Rare goes and produces Goldeneye and Banjo Kazooie.

Hell people thought the PS1 was maxed out when Warhawk came out (shortly after launch !) and obliterated everything graphically. Some other way of writing to the metal will come around, or someone will figure out a new software compression algorithm. As long as there is demand for the product the devs will find a way. Always happens.

 

[jvd]

It's funny whenever people say hardware is maxed out. Pundits said the SNES was maxed out mid 90's, and then Nintendo pulled Starfox, Donkey Kong Country, and Yoshi's Island out their arse to show that it still had much life in it.

People said the N64 was maxed, and then Rare goes and produces Goldeneye and Banjo Kazooie.

Hell people thought the PS1 was maxed out when Warhawk came out (shortly after launch !) and obliterated everything graphically. Some other way of writing to the metal will come around, or someone will figure out a new software compression algorithm. As long as there is demand for the product the devs will find a way. Always happens.

Na the snes was maxed out . The special fx chips they put into the carts is what boosted the graphics. Only the first starfox didn't have it . Or mabye it did don't remember.

Ps1 was maxed out well before launch when the raptor tech demo was doing 1 million pps and the sony people said that be second or 3rd gen games

 

[MonkeyLicker]

It's funny whenever people say hardware is maxed out. Pundits said the SNES was maxed out mid 90's, and then Nintendo pulled Starfox, Donkey Kong Country, and Yoshi's Island out their arse to show that it still had much life in it.

People said the N64 was maxed, and then Rare goes and produces Goldeneye and Banjo Kazooie.

Hell people thought the PS1 was maxed out when Warhawk came out (shortly after launch !) and obliterated everything graphically. Some other way of writing to the metal will come around, or someone will figure out a new software compression algorithm. As long as there is demand for the product the devs will find a way. Always happens.

Na the snes was maxed out . The special fx chips they put into the carts is what boosted the graphics. Only the first starfox didn't have it . Or mabye it did don't remember.

Ps1 was maxed out well before launch when the raptor tech demo was doing 1 million pps and the sony people said that be second or 3rd gen games

Actually, Star Fox did have it.
It was the first game to use it.

 

[Blade]

Natoma: Hell, people said that Soul Calibur maxed out the Dreamcast! And..

....

Well, it kinda did. Probably still the prettiest game for the system..

 

[oli2]

Natoma: Hell, people said that Soul Calibur maxed out the Dreamcast! And..

....

Well, it kinda did. Probably still the prettiest game for the system..

what is most impressive with Sc is that 4 years later, with machines that can load far more polys and 3D effects, you cannot find a game of this type about which you can say "it's far more pretty than SC", don't you think ?

 

[Grall]

I don't agree at all. SC looks DATED by now, SC2 is far far better-looking in comparison. In people's minds, SC probably kicks butt because it looked SO much better than anything available on Playstation or even the arcades, but really, it doesn't hold a candle to SC2 on Gamecube for example. Put them up side by side and there's no comparison between them.

I remember thinking Berzerk on the Atari VCS looked amazing from back when I was like nine years old or something. Having seen that game on an emulator, I know it's just a bunch of big ol blocky pixels. Same thing at work here, don't fool yourself into thinking the game is something it's clearly not...


*G*

 

[cybamerc]

SC didn't even look that good on the DC when it was released.

 

[Paul]

SC didn't even look that good on the DC when it was released.

Your kidding...

 

[chaphack]

In terms of being maxxxed out, it be more logical to say PS2. Hell yeah, its being out longer and in any case of superb "flexibility" it reputed to have, games are still going to hit the hardware ceiling. I mean, you can do more different things, but doesnt mean you can do more than the laid down specs.

XB has more potential for growth imho. Especially with polybump, shadows and whatnot DX8 pixel featues, which were sparringly used in earlier games.

As for SC1 vs SC2, SC2 would have crushed SC1, if it had better IQ...no, i am speaking honestly.

Somehow, the thing with PS2 video display, is that it totally lacks the smoothness and filtered looks of competitive consoles. Things will just look a tad duller, tad grainier, tad lowresy, tad shimmys, tad you-know-what. Not sure if its the DAC or GS or 4mb VRAM. But it is just that display problem that is holding back gamers from totally agreeing that, for instance, SC2 > SC1 graphics.

 

[Fox5]

I don't think gamecube will be maxed out, but Factor 5, whatever nintendo releases towards the end of the system(from any of its internal teams, including retro), and maybe some other companies(perhaps capcom in some ways), but I don't think we'll see maxing out in anywhere near the same way the n64 was maxed out, as only maybe rare and 1 or 2 other games got to that point. Even if rare was still working on gamecube, they're not the same rare that was on n64.

BTW, natoma- starfox, dkc, and yoshi's island were out in like early to mid 90s, and goldeneye and banjo kazooie came out early in the n64's life, so unless you say the system maxed after mario 64.......come on, just replace that with perfect dark and conker's bad fur day.

Blade- I don't see how people say soul calibur maxed out dreamcast, the polygon counts are low, the backgrounds are often 2d, special effects are basic, it doesn't really play to any of the dreamcast's strengths..certainly it was a very flashy game, and one of the sharpest games on the dreamcast, but with a major decrease in clarity shenmue 1 and 2 added many more things, and with a minor decrease doa2 and plenty of other games looked far better. Heck, even when soul calibur came out, I didn't think it was that good looking, as it looked like a psx game put through some decent hardware acceleration, and didn't really look better than killer instinct gold, though that was a prerendered 2d game with 3d effects.

Killer Instinct Gold

Dead or Alive 2(hard to find decent shots of this game that are actually in game...)

Soul Calibur 2(should I have posted a 720p shot? maybe this is one, since sc2 doesn't do 720p widescreen)

And Soul Calibur

Well, I remember doa2 and killer instinct looking better in motion.... however I'd still say soul calibur looks very much like a pc port of a psx game except for the higher quality textures and background, and possibly better than doa2's models, though doa2's models had better physics(not just on the...bouncy parts) and animation that made the characters look better. However, soul calibur 2 is clearly better than soul calibur 1 in like every way. Might be different if I hadn't posted an xbox screen though, as when I play soul calibur 2 I don't think it to be far beyond doa2 in graphics, and nowhere near doa3.....

Ah heck, a doa3 pic....(couldn't find any quality true in game shots of this one)