Could there be any PS3 games with no AA?

[groper]

Right now there are only 2 games on the 360 that use 2xAA. That's condemned and DoA.

PGR,PDZ,KAMEO etc. do NOT use any sort of AA (or AF), in fact PGR is the one that has worst shimmering of all my 360 games (because of the non HDTV resolution that is useD), whereas CoD seems to shimmer least.

GRAW is NOT using any AA as well (nor AF)! And please don't come posting any non ingame screenshots with some 10xSSAA applied to 'em...

I am not talking for launch games.
GR-AW use tiling and 4X AA.
120 720p screenshots : http://www.xboxfront.de/screenshots-728-1912-Tom_Clancy_s_Ghost_Recon_3__Advanced_Warfighter.html
FullAuto also has 4xAA.
And this is very encouraging for me when i am thinking that those titles r coming 3-4 months after the launch.

(i have played PDZ and it has AF)

 

[Nemo80]

I am not talking for launch games.
GR-AW use tiling and 4X AA.
120 720p screenshots : http://www.xboxfront.de/screenshots-728-1912-Tom_Clancy_s_Ghost_Recon_3__Advanced_Warfighter.html
FullAuto also has 4xAA.
And this is very encouraging for me when i am thinking that those titles r coming 3-4 months after the launch.

(i have played PDZ and it has AF)

Sorry, but even in the GRAW pictures above you can clearly see jaggies (just look at the top of the building e.g., jaggies all over). Don't mix up a bloom effect that seems to smooth out some edges (and loses some details) with AA, even if MS defines this as AA as well

And i own PDZ, it definately has NO AF at all but a very simple bilinear filter with a visible banding!

 

[rosman]

Sorry, but even in the GRAW pictures above you can clearly see jaggies (just look at the top of the building e.g., jaggies all over). Don't mix up a bloom effect that seems to smooth out some edges (and loses some details) with AA, even if MS defines this as AA as well

And i own PDZ, it definately has NO AF at all but a very simple bilinear filter with a visible banding!

4xMSAA will never remove all jaggies, even 4x FSAA doesnt. If ATI and nvidia propose AA 6x and 8x its because 4x does not remove everything...
I think you should have really high standard to nitpick the jaggies on those screens. Maybe you should come back on ps2

 

[Griffith]

graw use AA and hdr, now we can all back in topic?

 

[Titanio]

4xMSAA will never remove all jaggies, even 4x FSAA doesnt.

Hmm? MSAA is FSAA.

In my experience 4xAA removes nearly everything. Well, I play WoW at 4xAA, and never notice a jaggy.

About screens - if they show jaggies, it's likely that's what the game will look like. If it doesn't show any, it's possible there are actually none, but it's also possible that the shots are cleaned up by PR. Lots of current-gen games have screenshots out there for them without a single jaggy, but obviously the game doesn't look like that when you play it - they smooth them out for the PR shots.

 

[AlNom]

In my experience 4xAA removes nearly everything. Well, I play WoW at 4xAA, and never notice a jaggy.

Congratulations on focusing on the game instead of the graphics.

Playing games on my LCD at 1280x768 with 2xAA does a pretty good job already IMO. The move to 4xAA is better for the brighter environments of course, but during gameplay I am hardpressed to really notice that difference. AA sure is nice, but personally, I don't notice the lack of it unless I'm not the one playing.

 

[Griffith]

Hmm? MSAA is FSAA.

In my experience 4xAA removes nearly everything. Well, I play WoW at 4xAA, and never notice a jaggy.

About screens - if they show jaggies, it's likely that's what the game will look like. If it doesn't show any, it's possible there are actually none, but it's also possible that the shots are cleaned up by PR. Lots of current-gen games have screenshots out there for them without a single jaggy, but obviously the game doesn't look like that when you play it - they smooth them out for the PR shots.

MSAA is FSAA, but FSAA isn't ever MSAA, it can be SSAA
4x do not remove all the jaggies in mid resolution, of course a 4x at 1600x1200 is more efficient
the web is full of comparison between 4x and 6x,8x, and the differences are obvious for who are not blind

a lot of screenshots are taken from undone version, or in the better case from "preview build", there is not single screenshot from final game, , the last videos 720p shows hdr and aa, clearly

and again, dudes tell me why we are talking about a 360 game in a topic " Could there be any PS3 games with no AA?"

 

[Titanio]

Congratulations on focusing on the game instead of the graphics.

Playing games on my LCD at 1280x768 with 2xAA does a pretty good job already IMO. The move to 4xAA is better for the brighter environments of course, but during gameplay I am hardpressed to really notice that difference. AA sure is nice, but personally, I don't notice the lack of it unless I'm not the one playing.

I just turn it up to 4xAA because it runs well with it. I haven't tried lowering the AA, I might and see what difference it makes..I'm running at under 720p though, unfortunately, for now (a deficiency with my monitor, which hopefully will be changed soon ).

MSAA is FSAA, but FSAA isn't ever MSAA, it can be SSAA

Of course, but he was talking as if MSAA wasn't FSAA, that's all.

a lot of screenshots are taken from undone version, or in the better case from "preview build", there is not single screenshot from final game, , the last videos 720p shows hdr and aa, clearly

With a typical web video, might it not be tricky to spot aliasing? Compression and resolution, and all the various changes applied between the framebuffer and the quicktime or .wmv file you're watching could make it difficult to spot as easily as you might viewing a game directly on a screen.

I'm not casting a judgement on any particular game here at all, I'm just cautioning about totally relying on media.

 

[Griffith]

With a typical web video, might it not be tricky to spot aliasing? Compression and resolution, and all the various changes applied between the framebuffer and the quicktime or .wmv file you're watching could make it difficult to spot as easily as you might viewing a game directly on a screen.

not for a graphical whore as I am
jokes apart, if the video was a resized one, I agree with you, but with a WMV9 HD 720p direct feed video, no, the aliasing/antialising is for more than evident

I don't understand what is surprising in this fact, Xenos is full capable of MSAA 4x and HDR FP

 

[rosman]

i meant msaa and SuperSamplingAA :d

 

[Griffith]

ok, even a blind one can see the antialiasing at work, in the last 720p screens from the game

http://screenshots.teamxbox.com/screen-hires/46395/Tom-Clancys-Ghost-Recon-Advanced-Warfighter/
http://screenshots.teamxbox.com/screen-hires/46394/Tom-Clancys-Ghost-Recon-Advanced-Warfighter/



period.



now please, back in topic

 

[groper]

Sorry, but even in the GRAW pictures above you can clearly see jaggies (just look at the top of the building e.g., jaggies all over).

What is clear to me is that you have not understand the limitations of 4xaa.
HALF LIFE 2 - 1024 X 768



SCREEN 1 (NO AA) : SCREEN 1 (4XAA) :



SCREEN 2 (NO AA) : SCREEN 2 (4XAA):

(after upload click on the screen to saw it on the original size )

 

[Xmas]

groper, that's only 2x2 ordered grid multisampling. A sparse grid looks significantly better.

From the screenshots I would say GRAW uses a combination of 4xMSAA, a slight depth blur and transparency multisampling (alpha to coverage), but for some reason the latter only seems to have 2 levels on the trees (that's where the ugly dithering pattern comes from).
And the bloom method they use kills the AA effect somewhat because of the way it is applied on the already downsampled framebuffer. Unfortunately that means high contrast edges get almost no AA.

 

[Lysander]

only remark that jeux france post pics in 717p height, not 720p

graw is 4xAA

 

[Lazy8s]

Image multisampling only applies to polygon edges, not interiors too like supersampling. Without combining anisotropic texture filtering, MSAA doesn't come close to affecting all of the scene.

Aliasing shows more prominently in motion than in screenshots, and resolving it beyond a person's perception for perfect image integrity takes very high levels of AA/res, easily past 16x typical displays.

 

[nintenho]

Actually it is only switching on and off the interlacing blending.

Even Super Smash Bros Melee?

 

[Farid]

Keep on Topic, folks.

The topic is: Could there be any PS3 games with no AA?

Let's not derail the thread into a discussion about the property of the renderer of a particular game. Especially when this particular game is not even running on PS3.


On topic, 4XMSAA is hardly what one could consider as being able to correct all the edge aliasing shimmering.
8XMSAA, or better 8XSSAA is what I'd consider as excellent AA. 16XSSAA could be labelled as "perfect", if you ask me, that is.
But I'm a known "impossible to please" kind of enthusiast, so...

Also, and that's a point some people tend to forget when they make parallels with the PC Desktop space, one has to remember that the PPI on a HDTV is generaly lower than the PPI one can get on a monitor.

 

[Titanio]

Also, and that's a point some people tend to forget when they make parallels with the PC Desktop space, one has to remember that the PPI on a HDTV is generaly lower than the PPI one can get on a monitor.

This is true, but viewing distance would typically be much larger also. Beyond a certain distance your eyes might start doing some AA of its own

 

[Lysander]

4XMSAA is hardly what one could consider as being able to correct all the edge aliasing shimmering.

I think that on 720p hdtv it is optimal and near to perfect; more than that and it is wasting of resources of system power.

Would not higher aa on 720p create "foggy" picture, destroying sharpness of edges and lines.

 

[London Geezer]

I think that on 720p hdtv it is optimal and near to perfect; more than that and it is wasting of resources of system power.

Would not higher aa on 720p create "foggy" picture, destroying sharpness of edges and lines.

No it wouldn't. AA is not a Blur filter, which would cause a loss of detail. AA is completely different.