Could/Should XB1S get a new, faster hardware revision? *spawn

[Rangers]

MS can adjust X1X price to maintain healthy, if somewhat niche, sales. All the while it's out there repairing the branded damage X1 Phat caused.

399 by the end of 2018, 299 by the end 2019 with a slim model, at which point MS can discontinue X1S.

They should quietly in-line upgrade the S to something like 2.6 TF, 8GB GDDR5, should be able to maintain current very low Xbox S pricing (as it'd basically tech wise now be a upclocked vanilla PS4, should be easy to do with 4 years of process improvements). IMO do this with not so much fanfare. Announce it at E3, hey it's on sale in 1-2 months. It'd be a great move. With the current modularity around consoles.

I almost think it might happen by next e3.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

What would they gain for the costs?

 

[iroboto]

What would they gain for the costs?

Agreed. If Base line performance is such a concern to MS, easier to signal for EOL for 1S and just have 1X be their console go forward. Certainly easier than adding yet another SKU and exclusives start as soon as you make that call. Or don't call EOL and just allow for exclusives if that works for MS

 

[mpg1]

They should quietly in-line upgrade the S to something like 2.6 TF, 8GB GDDR5, should be able to maintain current very low Xbox S pricing (as it'd basically tech wise now be a upclocked vanilla PS4, should be easy to do with 4 years of process improvements). IMO do this with not so much fanfare. Announce it at E3, hey it's on sale in 1-2 months. It'd be a great move. With the current modularity around consoles.

I almost think it might happen by next e3.

yeah this isn't happening

 

[AlNom]

Agreed. If Base line performance is such a concern to MS, easier to signal for EOL for 1S and just have 1X be their console go forward. Certainly easier than adding yet another SKU and exclusives start as soon as you make that call. Or don't call EOL and just allow for exclusives if that works for MS

They could have done a bigger boost on the 1S, but that ship has sailed until the next revision assuming there is one. They probably still want to keep it around as the lower cost option though.

The ESRAM target is still important to maintain until they do a real EOL, and it still forces some devs to think about how to optimize their render targets anyway.

Sure the 2013 SKU owners get the shaft, but moving forwards, late adopters or replacement/upgraders will get a little more incentive (HW stability update), even if it's not the full range of enchantment that Scorpio buyers pay for (e.g. forced AF, 360 SSAA).

 

[iroboto]

They could have done a bigger boost on the 1S, but that ship has sailed until the next revision assuming there is one. They probably still want to keep it around as the lower cost option though.

The ESRAM target is still important to maintain until they do a real EOL, and it still forces some devs to think about how to optimize their render targets anyway.

Sure the 2013 SKU owners get the shaft, but moving forwards, late adopters or replacement/upgraders will get a little more incentive (HW stability update), even if it's not the full range of enchantment that Scorpio buyers pay for (e.g. forced AF, 360 SSAA).

But we're not supposed to be talking about that
If they do a boost, they would have to firmware update all SKUs. That would need to be a hell of an update to get it closer to 1.8 TF.

 

[function]

They should quietly in-line upgrade the S to something like 2.6 TF, 8GB GDDR5, should be able to maintain current very low Xbox S pricing (as it'd basically tech wise now be a upclocked vanilla PS4, should be easy to do with 4 years of process improvements). IMO do this with not so much fanfare. Announce it at E3, hey it's on sale in 1-2 months. It'd be a great move. With the current modularity around consoles.

I almost think it might happen by next e3.

There are definitely options that would help MS to shore up the low end of the market, where the X1S struggles to compete against the PS4.

One option might be to release a third, mid level SKU, but I agree that doing something with the X1S (protect X1 line, minimise SKUs, don't require any additional developer work) might be a better move. Wouldn't even need to be something all that radical. Boost the clocks and move from DDR3 to a narrower GDDR5 bus (DDR4 prices are ridiculous anyway) to ease the performance pain when render targets spill out of esram. Shave a little off die area, reduce motherboard complexity a little, push clocks right up and enforce 16x aniso ala X1X.

And sell it using the X1X name now that's established: "X1XS: The best 900Ps you ever seeeeeeen!"

Might as well put those enhanced Jaguar cores and those Hovis shenanigans to use in the next X1S revision. The R&D on them and lots of the 16nm design work is already done.

It certainly wouldn't hurt sales.

 

[BRiT]

If MS really wanted to shore up the lower-end they should have made the Xbox One S to have exactly the same specs as the base-model PS4 last year, but they didn't. They likely thought they could race to the bottom easier with the X1S how it was instead of doing a X1S+ with 18CU/GDDR.

Who knows, maybe they'll half of an X1X and call it "X1\", "X1/", or "X1>". They certainly wouldn't want to call is "X1<" (less than), but then again they did name this entire generation XBOne.

 

[function]

If MS really wanted to shore up the lower-end they should have made the Xbox One S to have exactly the same specs as the base-model PS4 last year, but they didn't. They likely thought they could race to the bottom easier with the X1S how it was instead of doing a X1S+ with 18CU/GDDR.

I don't think the X1 was ever thought of as a device for a desperate race to the bottom. X1S actually added capability rather than shaving off every cent it could.

With the esram MS either would either have needed to keep it while also increasing main memory BW, or ditch it and go for a wide and fast memory bus that much of the time would have been massively under utilised. X1S was making the best of the wrong product for 2013.

MS are now in a better position to both increase X1S performance should they want to, maintain seamless compatibility thanks to their increasingly developed BC wizardry, and to market it to a public who are influenced by the X1X halo product.

 

[iroboto]

I don't think the X1 was ever thought of as a device for a desperate race to the bottom. X1S actually added capability rather than shaving off every cent it could.

With the esram MS either would either have needed to keep it while also increasing main memory BW, or ditch it and go for a wide and fast memory bus that much of the time would have been massively under utilised. X1S was making the best of the wrong product for 2013.

MS are now in a better position to both increase X1S performance should they want to, maintain seamless compatibility thanks to their increasingly developed BC wizardry, and to market it to a public who are influenced by the X1X halo product.

but this would be unprecedented though right? PS3 or 360 never underwent such transformation even though die shrinks improved performance, they locked it didn't they?

 

[AzBat]

but this would be unprecedented though right? PS3 or 360 never underwent such transformation even though die shrinks improved performance, they locked it didn't they?

Yeah, but maybe they were wrong?

Tommy McClain

 

[AlNom]

But we're not supposed to be talking about that
If they do a boost, they would have to firmware update all SKUs. That would need to be a hell of an update to get it closer to 1.8 TF.

I mean another SKU revision, like One SE or something. Too late to do anything more with the One S.

 

[iroboto]

Yeah, but maybe they were wrong?

Tommy McClain

lol i dunno, I just don't see it happening.
The best i can think of is a serious firmware clock on the existing hardware. And the only way that's doable is to have been stress testing a whack of XBOs for the last 4 years at higher clocks.
And only because we know their fans can take it.
But aside from that, I don't think they'll do much as their halo product will be their marketing vehicle go forward until next gen.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

To reiterate my previous question, what are the gains? Is a faster low-end console really going to make a difference at this point to be worth the significant cost of creating it? Given the entrenched PS brand worldwide, I can't see the average low-end Joe Gamer who;s waited this long to pick XB1SE over PS4 because it's faster. Cheapest and most popular and exclusives seems to me the most significant deciding factors by far. Or is the hope/expectation that a large portion of XB1(S) owners upgrade?

 

[function]

but this would be unprecedented though right? PS3 or 360 never underwent such transformation even though die shrinks improved performance, they locked it didn't they?

Things are already going differently this gen - X1S introduced an upclocked GPU, then PS4Pro introduced an altogether enhanced GPU and faster CPU, then X1X blew everything else this gen out of the water. Anything's possible at this point, and an upgraded successor to the $250 old and struggling system, still sitting below the brand new $499 system is both an option for the market and easily able to offer upgraded experiences, as we've already seen from the X1X.

X1X Lite, or Slim, or whatever, could exist below the $499 system and be more appealing than the current X1S, IMO.

 

[Scott_Arm]

Xbox One X S

 

[function]

To reiterate my previous question, what are the gains? Is a faster low-end console really going to make a difference at this point to be worth the significant cost of creating it?

Works all the time with phones and graphics cards and CPUs and TVs.

New product, better than the old product but cheaper than the current top end bells and whistles product.

And in the case of an uprated X1S, or cut down X1X, or whatever, the technologies have already been developed. The CPU has already been refined, the clock boosting technologies are already tested and known, MS's high-channel-count (one per memory chip) memory controller is already there and working.

A more attractive product for similar manufacturing costs is not an outrageous proposition, IMO. MS's software can certainly handle running old games, massively improved, on newer hardware. Again, they've already developed that.

 

[function]

Xbox One X S

I already claimed that hours ago!

X1XS!

 

[dten]

If it were 2015, maybe, but at this point, we are likely 3-4 years from the next Xbox. An "SS" console would just get closer to your target 30/60 fps in heavy scenes or hit the top end of your dynamic res more often, basically like the S now but to a greater degree. I doubt devs will make a special patch build for an upgraded "SS" console with 1080p instead of 720p/900p of the OG/S in addition to the 4K-ish X version. The real benefits won't be that much and whatever sales bump probably won't be anything significant.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

Works all the time with phones and graphics cards and CPUs and TVs.

New product, better than the old product but cheaper than the current top end bells and whistles product.

And in the case of an uprated X1S, or cut down X1X, or whatever, the technologies have already been developed. The CPU has already been refined, the clock boosting technologies are already tested and known, MS's high-channel-count (one per memory chip) memory controller is already there and working.

A more attractive product for similar manufacturing costs is not an outrageous proposition, IMO. MS's software can certainly handle running old games, massively improved, on newer hardware. Again, they've already developed that.

You didn't actually answer the question. . What does MS gain? Do they gain sales?

For phones etc. it makes sense because there are other players constantly offering new options. We also see lots of them struggling to make money because they keep spending on rolling out new products with thin margins but consumers don't flock en masse to upgrade. Companies have to upgrade yearly to attract those who'll be upgrading that year, who'll buy a rival if they don't.

The console market is a 2/3 horse race. If rolling out a new machine doesn't improve your sales versus your rivals, there's no point, and I don't see that being faster is enough to shift masses of future shoppers from PS4 to XB1XS Deluxe Platinum Hardcore Edition. Nor do I think it's enough to sway a lot of would be XB1S buyers who look at it and think, "I'd get one but it's not powerful enough, so I won't get any console at all." I'm open to arguments against this, but you need to present a case as to what MS gains IMO. "May as well, they've nothing to lose," isn't a great reason to invest in a major product undertaking!