Corporate Feudalism and The Culture War

What? You're much smarter than this, don't tell me you actually believe in that crap? Capitalism is "neo-imperialism?" Free trade is "subjugation" and "neo-corporatism?" The VC a "rag-tag guerrilla army?" The author of that piece has a serious disconnect with reality, and the absolute ignorance of basic economic science or severe historical distortions never let up.
 
Legion said:
Natoma didn't you state before you are a fiscal conservative?

Yeah, that's what provided me with quite a bit of surprise. That's, if you read closely, a hard left rather than center left critique of the free-market system, with the "culture war" argument thrown in as a afterthought to help "explain" why Real Existing Socialism hasn't shown the Running Dogs of Capitalism and Imperialism the meaning of People's Justice yet.
 
Fiscal Conservatism imo is balancing budgets. If you have lots of social spending then you need to be prepared for lots of taxes. If you have little social spending then you can have little taxes.
 
Natoma said:
Fiscal Conservatism imo is balancing budgets. If you have lots of social spending then you need to be prepared for lots of taxes. If you have little social spending then you can have little taxes.

I would say his depictions of capitalism is extremely far left leaning.
 
akira888 said:
Legion said:
Natoma didn't you state before you are a fiscal conservative?

Yeah, that's what provided me with quite a bit of surprise. That's, if you read closely, a hard left rather than center left critique of the free-market system, with the "culture war" argument thrown in as a afterthought to help "explain" why Real Existing Socialism hasn't shown the Running Dogs of Capitalism and Imperialism the meaning of People's Justice yet.

Of course, its the same kind of cop-out communists use to explain why "pure communism" or "real communism" hasn't ever been tried. Of course, as we all know, their very propaganda is centered on demonizations of capatalism and democracy which likewise aren't pure.
 
Natoma said:
Fiscal Conservatism imo is balancing budgets. If you have lots of social spending then you need to be prepared for lots of taxes. If you have little social spending then you can have little taxes.

Exactly how large is that credit card balance you say that you and your partner are paying off?
 
akira888 said:
What? You're much smarter than this, don't tell me you actually believe in that crap? Capitalism is "neo-imperialism?" Free trade is "subjugation" and "neo-corporatism?" The VC a "rag-tag guerrilla army?" The author of that piece has a serious disconnect with reality, and the absolute ignorance of basic economic science or severe historical distortions never let up.

Free trade, without protections for workers in other countries, can spur subjugation. Sweat shops?

The neo-imperialism is something I found to be funny actually, not because I thought it was false, but because I wouldn't call it that. Basically, we've exported more american culture and democracy through the exportation of McDonalds, Nike, Hollywood, etc etc etc. You could call it neo-imperialism, but I think that's just a little grandiose. Of course, I was looking past things like that and looking at the big picture.

How else would you describe the Vietcong?
 
Joe DeFuria said:
Natoma said:
Fiscal Conservatism imo is balancing budgets. If you have lots of social spending then you need to be prepared for lots of taxes. If you have little social spending then you can have little taxes.

Exactly how large is that credit card balance you say that you and your partner are paying off?

When we moved out (out of necessity due to bad conditions at home after coming out), we accrued about $37K credit card debt, and we had another $20K of school loans to pay off. We accrued that debt because of unforseen circumstances, but immediately began the process of paying it off.

Over the past 3 years, we've paid off about $27K, and will have the remaining $30K paid off by February of next year. How? By limiting our spending and dumping as much as possible into our debt. We send out about $2700 a month to our credit cards and school loans.

When we're out of debt, we're going to be able to resume a normal lifestyle. Of course we've been helped by the reduced interest rates of the past 3 years. Heaven help those who accrued massive debts over the past few years from layoffs to reduced pay to whatever, when interest rates begin to rise.

That imo is fiscal conservatism, i.e. fiscal responsibility.
 
Legion said:
Of course, its the same kind of cop-out communists use to explain why "pure communism" or "real communism" hasn't ever been tried. Of course, as we all know, their very propaganda is centered on demonizations of capatalism and democracy which likewise aren't pure.

Communism will never work in a large scale society. It can only work in small enclaves imo.
 
Free trade, without protections for workers in other countries, can spur subjugation. Sweat shops?

Likewise can socialism and its supposed protections. EU in africa anyone?

The neo-imperialism is something I found to be funny actually, not because I thought it was false, but because I wouldn't call it that.

I'd say its a buzz word used by those with a left wing agenda to generalize capitalists. Its nothing more than name calling and mudd slinging.

Basically, we've exported more american culture and democracy through the exportation of McDonalds, Nike, Hollywood, etc etc etc.

I suppose that depends on how you define culture.

You could call it neo-imperialism, but I think that's just a little grandiose. Of course, I was looking past things like that and looking at the big picture.

No, you really couldn't call it that. Imperialism has become a bastardized term:


im·pe·ri·al·ism ( P ) Pronunciation Key (m-pîr--lzm)
n.
The policy of extending a nation's authority by territorial acquisition or by the establishment of economic and political hegemony over other nations.
The system, policies, or practices of such a government.

What is being suggested in your article is simply, and utterly, false. These product you see as apart of american culture wouldn't sell unless there was some form of demand for them. They aren't being forced on anyone. This is what we call cultural transactions. The only way to prevent this is to reduce a society to an entirely isolationist state.
 
Natoma said:
Legion said:
Of course, its the same kind of cop-out communists use to explain why "pure communism" or "real communism" hasn't ever been tried. Of course, as we all know, their very propaganda is centered on demonizations of capatalism and democracy which likewise aren't pure.

Communism will never work in a large scale society. It can only work in small enclaves imo.

There are very sound reasons for this and why socialism is likewise a failure.
 
Legion said:
Communism will never work in a large scale society. It can only work in small enclaves imo.

How small? Perhaps like a small community of early settlers in the U.S.

Nope...failed there too. (I'll try and find a link...)
 
Legion said:
Free trade, without protections for workers in other countries, can spur subjugation. Sweat shops?

Likewise can socialism and its supposed protections. EU in africa anyone?

The only thing I'm aware of atm when it comes to the EU and Africa is the resistance to importing genetically modified crops by the EU, even though it could help the starvation epidemic in Africa. But I'm not aware of any other EU shenanigans. What other examples are there?

Legion said:
Basically, we've exported more american culture and democracy through the exportation of McDonalds, Nike, Hollywood, etc etc etc.

I suppose that depends on how you define culture.

You wouldn't say american culture is in large part defined and created by corporations? Advertising?

Legion said:
You could call it neo-imperialism, but I think that's just a little grandiose. Of course, I was looking past things like that and looking at the big picture.

No, you really couldn't call it that. Imperialism has become a bastardized term:


im·pe·ri·al·ism ( P ) Pronunciation Key (m-pîr--lzm)
n.
The policy of extending a nation's authority by territorial acquisition or by the establishment of economic and political hegemony over other nations.
The system, policies, or practices of such a government.

What is being suggested in your article is simply, and utterly, false. These product you see as apart of american culture wouldn't sell unless there was some form of demand for them. They aren't being forced on anyone. This is what we call cultural transactions. The only way to prevent this is to reduce a society to an entirely isolationist state.

Well the definition does say that the establishment of economic hegemony over other nations is imperialism. Now, of course this isn't your typical imperialism by force, such as occurred with China for instance, but you could look at the export of american culture through our products as a form of neo-imperialism. As I said before, I wouldn't necessarily call it that, but it isn't necessarily an incorrect statement.
 
Joe DeFuria said:
Legion said:
Communism will never work in a large scale society. It can only work in small enclaves imo.

How small? Perhaps like a small community of early settlers in the U.S.

Nope...failed there too. (I'll try and find a link...)

Communism can only work on a level where everyone has more or less personal relations to each other, for instance in a family. In a family everyone could work for a common cause without getting much out of it personally, and still be ok with it since it benefits people you love. Love is the only attribute of humans that will beat greed.
 
Legion said:
Natoma said:
Fiscal Conservatism imo is balancing budgets. If you have lots of social spending then you need to be prepared for lots of taxes. If you have little social spending then you can have little taxes.

I would say his depictions of capitalism is extremely far left leaning.
Well , please give us a more accurate description of capitalism that actually correlates it's purportedly endless benefits to reality.
 
Humus said:
Joe DeFuria said:
Legion said:
Communism will never work in a large scale society. It can only work in small enclaves imo.

How small? Perhaps like a small community of early settlers in the U.S.

Nope...failed there too. (I'll try and find a link...)

Communism can only work on a level where everyone has more or less personal relations to each other, for instance in a family. In a family everyone could work for a common cause without getting much out of it personally, and still be ok with it since it benefits people you love. Love is the only attribute of humans that will beat greed.

bs. Self preservation and compassion.
 
indio said:
Legion said:
Natoma said:
Fiscal Conservatism imo is balancing budgets. If you have lots of social spending then you need to be prepared for lots of taxes. If you have little social spending then you can have little taxes.

I would say his depictions of capitalism is extremely far left leaning.
Well , please give us a more accurate description of capitalism that actually correlates it's purportedly endless benefits to reality.

did i state it had endless benefits? Did i purport it had endless benefits? No. Why not ask me a question that relates to what i was stating?
 
Preaching to your Choir, eh, Natoma?

Oh gawd, that's the most fuzzy headed article I've ever read. He never gives a rigorous definition of this nefarious "corporate feudalism" and then procedes over and over again to use the phrase in strawman arguments. Like Nader, "Corporation" is a buzz word like "Big Government". Nader thinks if he repeats "We live in a Corporate Republic" enough, we'll be scared of, what? So workers in a corporation must deal with a hierarchy, and how is that different from any other large grouping of people? Hierarchy is fundamental to organizing large amounts of people or data. The only negative thing about a hierarchy is if it is static, but Western capitalism shows remarkable social mobility, and the hierarchy keeps changing.


This article throws around the word "corporation" like right-wingers throw around the word "government" The author is guilty of exactly the fundamentalism that he criticizes right wingers of.

Moreover, the whole idea of a "cheap labor conservative" is hilarious, especially when mentioning Pat Buchanan in the next breadth -- one of the biggest protectionists in the Republican party. Right wingers were accusing Japan of "economist conquest" or an "economic pearl harbor" in the 80s, as they staged rallies to bulldoze over Japanese electronics.

He speaks of outsourcing to overseas labor as if the *end goal* is to subjugate people, rather than to increase profits. He talks as if CEOs *destroy the middle class* of America by *exporting their jobs on purpose*, e.g. their intent is not to make money, but something more nefarious. And then the priceless claim: "privatized tyranny" represents a "seizure of government to serve a new purpose" Excuse me, but by default, things are private. A government not doing anything to invade someone's use of their property is not a "seizure". A seizure is when you *take something away from someone*, which is what most left policies boil down to.


Finally, we come to the idea of "cultural imperialism", that exporting our art, music, books, movie, fashion, and philosophy constitute an "attack" on other cultures. That Western culture is "displacing" other people's pristine cultures. The first problem with this, is it treats people like they are zoo animals on a cultural Galapagos island, and it treats Western culture as homogenous. It's a stupid voyeuristic "cultural prime directive", where backpacking granola wannabees hike through rainforests and "delight" in encounter poor, unducated, bushmen "left untouched" by western culture. Aww, how cute, look at their rare dance rituals and living style. How awful if they had a satellite dish and had access to StarBucks.


The second problem is, historically, cultures that had a "closed door" policy stagnated and withered. Cross fertilization is good. The Chinese thought the outside world had nothing to offer, so their kingdom, which was far more advanced than many others, got bypassed by others that did trade. Arabs had no problem adopting Chinese gunpowered used in fireworks to make weapons. The Romans adopted culture from the Greeks and Estrucans, the Spanish, the Arabs, and on and on.

Western culture is an amalgamation of hundreds of cultures from the around the world and it is not monolithic. Western culture in Japan is different from Western culture in China, and in Europe. If you walk down the streets of London today, you can find more Indian food than British. Who got culturally invaded, Bollywood, or Britain? If you drive through Silicon Valley, there are 2000+ chinese restaurants, and 200+ Italian.

Today, American kids are wearing chinese Ideographs on their t-shirts, playing with Pokemon and YuGiOh, and wearing Hello Kitty. None are indigienosu. We take in Anime, Jackie Chan, Jet Li. We listen to reggae and latin music.

The Japanese have thoroughly latched onto Western culture, but they have made it their own. It is a different Western culture, one blended into Japanese culture. They have kept their religious, their holidays, their festivities, their heavy patriarchalism, their appreciation for school girls :), and added in Harley Davidsons, Britney Spears, and Ahnold Movies, to complement their own Anime.

Ditto for China, where I spend alot of time. Sure, they love wearing the latest Italian fashion. But Chinese people have not lost their identity, and you can tell this easily if you happen to know both an immigrant Chinese person and an ABC (American Born Chinese). Oceans of difference.

America and Europe are not turning the developing world into Americans and Europeans. For sure, they are turning into something different, but that is a mixture of their native and foreign culture. Likewise, in the process, we are slowly being transformed as well, adding new words, new music, new aesthetics to our own.


A 1000 years ago, you could have said much of the same thing about Europe. But now in any given European city, you can enjoy a piece of culture from Italy, France, Germany, or Spain. This is also referred monolithically as "Western culture", but it is now an amalgamation of what used to be very separate.
 
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