Coronavirus Pandemic (COVID-19) (SARS-CoV-2) [2020]

DuckThor Evil said:
Pushing back against vaccine passports is not the same as being"anti-vax" Vaccine passports are a very complex issue and should not be introduced lightly.
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Nor is Anti-Mask-MANDATE the same as Anti-Mask. I see a a lot of arrogant strawmanning followed by "see: they dumb, me smart". Nuance does exist. I know, hard to believe, but if you lower the pitch-forks, you may find it.
 
digitalwanderer said:
Just how do you square this circle of logic? He was spotted the night before on stage unmasked around people, does the fact that he wants to make other people not wear a mask means he's somehow NOT against them?
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Those who wish to wear a mask are still free to do so, no?
 
I am not sure if I understand correctly. But I think he is pointing out that being against forcing masks through law is not necessarily the same as being against wearing masks to protect others.
Same with vaccinations. There are people who are against forcing through law directly or indirectly the vaccinations but arent necessarily people who are against vaccines.
 
I suppose it is a Libertarian viewpoint. Even if you think people should be wearing masks, you are sort of entitled to think that the government shouldn't be forcing them to do so. It's one of those weird Libertarian viewpoints which don't make much sense logically. But there you are.
 
Mariner said:
I suppose it is a Libertarian viewpoint. Even if you think people should be wearing masks, you are sort of entitled to think that the government shouldn't be forcing them to do so. It's one of those weird Libertarian viewpoints which don't make much sense logically. But there you are.
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I does not make sense logically if you are only thinking in short term, and don't worry about what future precedents present law may set up.

I am not entirely on that camp, personally, and I accept laws and social policy are unavoidably messy, but I respect the libertarian positions more than most, and am hell of glad they do exist. They help keep check's and balances in ways other people usually don't.
 
I think that, possibly, the problem with Libertarians is that the noisiest ones tend to be the whackiest in their thinking. Hence the fact that many of them think Ayn Rand was on to something, regardless of all the evidence.
 
Mariner said:
Even if you think people should be wearing masks, you are sort of entitled to think that the government shouldn't be forcing them to do so.
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But the not wearing of masks inflicts measurable damage on others, sure if wearing masks only affected the wearer then of course its up to the person to choose if they wear them or not and not the government (though dont except the government to pay if they get sick)

god just looked at the lib party of the USA, its a joke website
https://www.lp.org/issues/

"Taxes
If Americans want to give money to the government for one reason or another, they should be free to do so. If Americans prefer to spend their money on other things, then they should be free to do that also."
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:LOL:I can see that working out well

Go to somewhere like vietnam, very low tax there
 
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zed said:
But the not wearing of masks inflicts measurable damage on others, sure if wearing masks only affected the wearer then of course its up to the person to choose if they wear them or not and not the government (though dont except the government to pay if they get sick)

god just looked at the lib party of the USA, its a joke website
https://www.lp.org/issues/


:LOL:I can see that working out well

Go to somewhere like vietnam, very low tax there
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I would have understood them if they were complaining that their money are wasted to feed the pockets of the rich and that their social welfare is subpar or that the rich arent taxed enough for their overpaid income that isnt reflective of what they produce.
Also if they were honest they should have been complaining about the taxation imposed by private companies in the form of super profits on every good they buy.
 
zed said:
But the not wearing of masks inflicts measurable damage on others.
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That measurable damage and its importance varies greatly between environment outdoor/indoors, on the mall/the beach. The importance of that risk is also affected by the situation. Are you in a city where the vulnerable are still unvaccinated, or one where every adult (who wanted to at least) has gotten their two doses? Masks also have measurable harms to the wearer. Arguably much lower than those of a bad case of covid. But how low does the probability of a bad case of covid have to be for us to cross the threshold of cost-benefit in requiring them of everybody all the time. And please, try to think about this without all the moral posturing.

We have thousands of things people are free to do that cause measurable externalities which we ignore for convenience. People are free to drive cars, even though those polute the air, the sound, and may cause accidents. Some countries mitigate that by mandating air filters, noise limits, and driver Ed. Other countries don't mandate them, but incentivise them. They all have tradeoffs of safety vs. state-control. Both extremes have their dangers. Too anarchic of a world is dangerous for its sheer chaos, but too controlled is dangerous for its tirany.

If one accepts, for example, that the hypotheisis that covid was actually an accidental leak from Wuhan's gain of function research, which seems to now be accepted by most as the most likely origin by most experts, it serves as a perfect picture of the dangers of big-state. China is far from an organizational utopia, but I don't think that happens despite the large and centralized nature of its government, but as a predictable consequence. Covid could possibly not have gotten as out of hand, had the leak occured in a less bureocratic country, since more freedom leads to more whistleblowing and honesty/transparency. It's pretty obvious China authories tried sweeping this fuck-up under the rug to cover their asses, while the problem got much worse than it needed to.

The more we allow governments to centralize the decision making, the more they evolve into heavy and unwieldy opaque machines like the CCP. Literaly everyone here, no matter if pro more agressive covid-contention laws, or against them, has something to complain about the decisions of government and health institutions. If nothing else, the ONE thing we can all agree is that a lot of the decisions don't make sense, are contradictory, and seem suspiciously self-serving a lot of the time.

What staggers me is to see that some people's answer to this "bad-government" problem seems invariably to be "MOAR GOVERNMENT!"

This childish naive hope for a benevolent dictator to save the day, seems like modern-day slave-morality to me. "If only we had a just king" instead of "fuck kings"
 
Cobb County, GA, there's a growing number of parents pulling their kids out of the school system.

The school board had promised all kinds of mitigation measures including masks and distancing but there have been signs that these measures weren't enforced.

Then came an email from one board member denying the effectiveness of masks, vaccines, etc. Calling it the China virus, claiming thousands have died from vaccine, etc.

https://www.cnn.com/2021/08/19/health/cobb-county-schools-georgia-covid/index.html


The board isn't answering and some parents accuse the board fo being influenced by a minority who are much more loud and confrontational about making the children unmask. Article has a picture of one woman holding an "Unmask Our Kids" sign.

So it's not just ignoring mitigation measures but aggressively demanding that all kinds not wear masks, essentially ignore that covid is a problem.

Cobb is an Atlanta suburb and supposedly one of the more educated, affluent counties in the state. Yikes.
 
to be honest I am a bit annoyed that kids are forced to wear masks in some countries. We adults can take it easier. But kids are being deprived and limited a lot socially. Its sn important age for the development of their personalities and skills. Its also an important age to develop their immune systems that will help then for the rest of their lives. I understand that they might carry the various but all factors should be considered.
 
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