Cooling Revolution.

The 360's cooling solution looks too big for the Revolution from those photos, even the GPU heatsink + duct + fan.
 
function said:
The 360's cooling solution looks too big for the Revolution from those photos, even the GPU heatsink + duct + fan.
Click to expand...

And that's why nobody said Xbox 360's cooling solution will be used in Revolution. ;)

Read the post over.

Shifty Geezer said:
Bad choice for considering cooling requirements. Seems XB360's solutions wasn't 'big enough' :devilish:
Click to expand...

When was it mentioned that Xbox 360's cooling system will be used in Revolution? ;)

Two posts and still no clue. :LOL:
 
Perhaps I got the wrong end of the stick, the thread is called "Cooling Revolution" but doesn't mention Revolution anywhere in the body of the first post.

What I mean to say is that I don't think you could reasonably (quietly) remove as much heat as the 360s cooling solution does in something the size of Revolution. While the GPU heatsink is quite low, it has a fair surface area and has a duct connected to a reasonably large fan.

The 360s size allows for this cooling solution to fit inside the console as well as having some more open space and a PC style DVD drive. If you dropped the height of the machine you'd need to use more, smaller fans and that would require a wider ducting system.

If we aren't considering how a similar cooling solution (in terms of effectiveness) could fit into Revolution, I don't see why this Xbox 360 cooling thread would be titled "Cooling Revolution" ...
 
For those arguing the thread title I think you just have to read the title and the first post and extrapolate how they are related for yourself.

I think it would be a safe bet to suggest that PC-Engine is using the (relatively) small size of Xenos' heatsink as an example of reduced size cooling devices for Revolution (granted, it is kinda tied to the significantly larger cooler on Xenon though).

One of the key issues with regard to cooling in Revolution, as has been mentioned in other threads time and again, is that the system almost certainly won't have the same kind of heat to disperse because it almost certainly will not be as powerful as 360 (and therefore PS3), therefore the cooling solution can be significantly smaller too. It's entirely possible that smaller heatsinks along with some clever air and possibly cool-liquid ducting would be more than sufficient to keep Rev cool.
 
Well to visualize what is required for Revolution, you would need to omit that HUGE CPU heatsink and everything that's attached to it including the huge duct and two large fans. I doubt Revolution's CPU will be drawing 85 Watts of power.

Also looking at the dual fans you'll notice that they are mounted vertically. The airflow through the fan is parallel to the axis of rotation. This is not how ducted fans are mounted on video cards or CPU fans on notebook computers. Also notice the GPU heatsink is mounted underneath the DVD drive with no ill effects.

That GPU heatsink is exactly how I'd imagined it would look for Revolution's GPU ie a low profile heatsink that is large in area cooled with a ducted fan. For Revolution's CPU, you'd just share the same GPU heatsink and increase the area while keeping the profile the same.

In summary Xbox 360 is bigger than Revolution because the motherboard is big and the DVD drive is big. Attached below is an image with an outline of what I expect the size of Revolution's motherboard will be (red outline) and the size of the unified CPU/GPU heatsink (yellow outline). Also notice the white square outline around the GPU. That is the actual size of the GPU's heatsink in Xbox360.
 

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PC-Engine said:
In summary Xbox 360 is bigger than Revolution because the motherboard is big and the DVD drive is big.
Click to expand...

Not a slot in drive and not laptop technology as would be in the Revolution.
Still wonder what cooling solution the Revolution will have, the Dreamcast had a rather neat liquid cooling solution.
 
The x360 mainboard is big because it needs big coolers on both chips, and a lot of support equipment in the form of power regulation, southbridge, video scaler etc. Yes, xenos cooler is also very large, if you look closely it actually has a fair height, it just looks really low profile because it's so damn WIDE! It's pretty much, if not entirely the width of the DVDROM it sits beneath! Anyone who thinks that is a small heatsink is clearly smoking crack.

No way Rev could handle the wattage dissipated by x360, not without having one of those 9000RPM static fin 60mm fans that Delta makes cooling it...
 
PC-Engine said:
That GPU heatsink is exactly how I'd imagined it would look for Revolution's GPU ie a low profile heatsink that is large in area cooled with a ducted fan. For Revolution's CPU, you'd just share the same GPU heatsink and increase the area while keeping the profile the same.
Click to expand...

I don't know what your're getting here, we have seen the size of Revolution case, isn't expected for it to have low profile heatsink just for it to fit in there ?

In summary Xbox 360 is bigger than Revolution because the motherboard is big and the DVD drive is big.
Click to expand...

Are you suggesting that 360 can be made into Revolution size if they designed smaller motherboard and smaller DVD drive ?
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Powderkeg said:
This big white thing is part of the cooling system, correct?

http://images.anandtech.com/reviews/system/microsoft/xbox360/no_cov.jpg
Click to expand...
No, he's saying you only need a low profile heatsink, and they could use smaller ducts with a centrifugal blower fan to keep profile low too. Those as I say, that small heatsink might be too small for XB360 and in reality they need a huge chunk of copper :p

I have to say that is a very small and simple heatsink for what's a very powerful GPU. Ther's very little surface area for heat transfer and I guess a high airflow is needed.
 
I find a bit awkward are there only 2 fans blowing air out with such heat inside a small form factor case? wouldn't be more effective to have one blowing air in and another (preferably in some opposite side) blowing the air out, the temp inside the case would be much better, no?
 
Shifty Geezer said:
I have to say that is a very small and simple heatsink for what's a very powerful GPU. Ther's very little surface area for heat transfer and I guess a high airflow is needed.
Click to expand...

Precisely.

The lack of heat sink size requires a massive amount of airflow to compensate. My 360 blows air out the back that's almost as hot, and almost as fast as a hair dryer, and pretty much everyone knows about the overheating problems.

We know from Nintendo that the Revolution will be slightly larger than the DVD drive in the picture I posted. By looking at the entire cooling system in the 360 (Heat sink AND FAN ASSEMBLY we can safely conclude that there is no possible way that would fit in the Revolution.

The Revolution must incorporate chips that run significantly cooler than the 360's if they plan on launching at the size that they've stated. PC Engine pretty much just proved that point by showing how massive of a fan system is required to compensate for such a small heat sink.
 
doob said:
I find a bit awkward are there only 2 fans blowing air out with such heat inside a small form factor case? wouldn't be more effective to have one blowing air in and another (preferably in some opposite side) blowing the air out, the temp inside the case would be much better, no?
Click to expand...

Not necessarily. A fan blowing in may sping at a couple of RPM faster than the one blowing out which would build up dead air in the system and reduce the cooling efficiency. By using ducting and exhaust only fans they are better able to control where the air flows, as well as how much air is moved.
 
doob said:
I find a bit awkward are there only 2 fans blowing air out with such heat inside a small form factor case? wouldn't be more effective to have one blowing air in and another (preferably in some opposite side) blowing the air out, the temp inside the case would be much better, no?
Click to expand...

It would be more effective as the powermac G5s employ this strategy. But with the tall heat sink and the DVD drive in the way it's hard to channel the air like that.

I just think it was a bad idea to place the DVD drive ontop of the GPU heat sink. It looks so cramped I'm surprised they could get any air current going.

MS needs a die shrink and fast!
 
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