Controversial this: ATI & retail

[dan2097]

NVIDIA's cash cow right now is the 6600 and 6200 series. Those products are selling like hot cakes, and in each instance they are outperforming the ATI part at that price point.

hmm IMO they dont

The x600 pro/9600 pro >6200 and the 9700 pro >6600 (ATI hasnt really got the X700 nps available so this is the card thats closest in price currently )

I guess the 6600 beats ATI by default in the PCI-E sector though, or beats the cheaper X600 pro

(actually are there any AGP 6600 non gts? i.e. is any comparison between a 9700 pro and a 6600 academic)

Dunno about the TC 6200s.

 

[Xmas]

hmm IMO they dont

The x600 pro/9600 pro >6200 and the 9700 pro >6600 (ATI hasnt really got the X700 nps available so this is the card thats closest in price currently )

I guess the 6600 beats ATI by default in the PCI-E sector though, or beats the cheaper X600 pro

(actually are there any AGP 6600 non gts? i.e. is any comparison between a 9700 pro and a 6600 academic)

Dunno about the TC 6200s.

Different prices in different countries, the small differences in the lower end and the differences in the PCIe and AGP markets make it difficult to say who has the best offers.
But it seems to me the 6200TCs 64bit/32bit are positioned nicely against the X300/SE, while the 6600GT looks like a more attractive offer than the X700Pro. The 6200 is too expensive, a 6600 costs only slightly more and is just as fast and cheaper than a X600XT.
The AGP market is different because 9600XTs and 9800Pro cards still are very good offers.

 

[trinibwoy]

16X... I am testing a 6800 GT SLI setup, and I can attest that 16X works fine in many games.

I'm actually replaying WC III now at 1600x1200 8xS/16AF on a single GT@Ultra with steady 60fps (I think the engine is capped similar to Doom3). After seeing the reviews of horrible 8x performance I had never even bothered trying the higher AA modes but that nHancer app got me interested again. 16xS works fine too at 1280x1024 but I find jaggies are reduced more with the former config.

BTW: anyone remember that program that showed you the positions of each AA sample? Know where I can get it?

 

[trinibwoy]

The AGP market is different because 9600XTs and 9800Pro cards still are very good offers.

ATI is still producing those SKU's?

 

[Tahir2]

9800 Pro's ... yes
Seen some 9600 Pro's as well but they may be end of line now.

 

[Tweaker]

BTW: anyone remember that program that showed you the positions of each AA sample? Know where I can get it?

Do you mean FSAA Viewer?

 

[trinibwoy]

BTW: anyone remember that program that showed you the positions of each AA sample? Know where I can get it?

Do you mean FSAA Viewer?

Yep, that's it. Thanks a lot.

 

[Sandwich]

hmm IMO they dont

The x600 pro/9600 pro >6200 and the 9700 pro >6600 (ATI hasnt really got the X700 nps available so this is the card thats closest in price currently )

I guess the 6600 beats ATI by default in the PCI-E sector though, or beats the cheaper X600 pro

(actually are there any AGP 6600 non gts? i.e. is any comparison between a 9700 pro and a 6600 academic)

Dunno about the TC 6200s.

Different prices in different countries, the small differences in the lower end and the differences in the PCIe and AGP markets make it difficult to say who has the best offers.

That's true enough.
I can get a 6600 for the price of a X600XT, or a 6200 for a X300. That's no competition for nvidia in the low end segment.
I wouldn't seriously consider a new 9800pro or 9600pro as an alternative for the GF6x00 series. The older cards are still selling for the almost the same price they were 5 months ago. Used radeons maybe, but that's an entirely differnt game.

 

[Pressure]

ATi's AA is still noticeably better, and their driver support is insanely better than nVidia's currently.

That's an insanely huge overstatement. With the exception of some issues with SLI, games work properly with nvidia cards.
Wonders what word you'd use to describe the difference between ATI and XGI drivers. :?

I said "driver support", not drivers.

The monthly release schedule of ATi's kicks the bejeebus out of nVidia's non-existant policy.....you agree? :|

ATI does not have a policy to update their drivers every month. If I recall correct, they made a plan of action that they would atleast 6 times a year update their drivers. So they are overpromising here

Cannot honestly say if they are any better than NVIDIA but they do update their drivers more regularly.

 

[digitalwanderer]

If I recall correct, they made a plan of action that they would atleast 6 times a year update their drivers. So they are overpromising here

That's their linux drivers, for windows they promised monthly releases.

 

[Pressure]

If I recall correct, they made a plan of action that they would atleast 6 times a year update their drivers. So they are overpromising here

That's their linux drivers, for windows they promised monthly releases.

Oh, thanks for correcting me. Was sure it was 6 times a year

In a sense it were heh.

 

[trinibwoy]

Pressure, are you martrox's clone? Or did you just like his sig?

 

[Blacklash]

Check the 280 dollar XL here VS the near 500 dollar Ultra in a complex shader intensive D3D game. Not only has ATi traditionally outdone their competitor in AA quality, they also tend to do it with performance as well when AA/AF are combined.

http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/video/display/pc-x850xt-x800xl_16.html

 

[martrox]

Pressure, are you martrox's clone? Or did you just like his sig?

Well....it's not copyrighted.......at least I hope it's not! It's not me....but if he is my clone, I wish he'd start dealing with my ex's for me!

 

[stevem]

But it seems to me the 6200TCs 64bit/32bit are positioned nicely against the X300/SE, while the 6600GT looks like a more attractive offer than the X700Pro. The 6200 is too expensive, a 6600 costs only slightly more and is just as fast and cheaper than a X600XT.
The AGP market is different because 9600XTs and 9800Pro cards still are very good offers.

I'm not so certain re: 6600GT vs X700 Pro, but vanilla 6600 is a hit. 6200 is only a slightly lower price as the AIB BOM is close to 6600 as they're essentially the same board with different NV43 variant & voltage level. Ati needs to get X700/Pro+Rialto into the AGP segment where 6600/6600GT+HSI are beating them. The freaky thing is the trivial price difference between faster 128MB & slower 256MB boards.

 

[Altcon]

Whenever I visit online PC shops I can't help thinking whether they actually sold any ATI cards at all.
Comparing current prices, I cannot think of any compelling reason to go for ATI at all.

While the current ATI line-up consists of very good cards, the cards are even less appealing than nvidia cards were in their FX days.
With *maybe* the exception of the new X800XL, ATI is consistently being beaten by nvidia at any pricepoint.
Even with the FX series, nvidia still had a few aces left: good dx8 performance, better AF and superior OpenGL. That and bargain bin pricing made such cards like the GF 5900XT very competative with ATI, despite poor DX9 performance.
ATI's problem seems to be radeons being so similar to the GF6 series, they HAVE to be cheaper, as ATI currently don't have any extra features over nvidia.

Are ATI neglecting the retail market? If so, ATI must have made some pretty amazing OEM deals to get away with it.

Either you don't read around the forum or you're asking for it....

 

[Altcon]

Well I'm going to reply in general cause it seems like fight time here...
I had a 9700 pro and I can clearly see the difference in AA over my current 6800 GT. 4 AA on ATi IS better than Nvidia's 4 AA, I also appreciated ATi's monthly driver update.
Apart from that I really can't see any compelling reason to go ATI. I find the latest Nvidia drivers great and have not found any issues in the games I play. The performance is amazing, and I suspect the difference between the high end cards is mostly academic and can't be noticed in real world gaming.
The only problem I'm hearing of these days is EQ2, which Nvidia have to catch up on.
From a features point of view, PS3 is probably not going to be looking it's best on the GF6 series once second generation PS3 capable products arrive, but that remains to be seen. For a very technically gifted forum it seems that Fanboisim is not as rare as it used to be.
I think both companies have capable products and I for one would raher go with the latest technology when offered at the same price point.
One thing I find quite funny is that NO ONE would recommend an X700 series product over 6600 but everyone here is practically falling over themselves to prove X800 rules...
Strange days out here....

 

[Altcon]

If the price of the X800XL is good in the USA, good for you. The problem is for the rest of us outside of the USA, who are trying to buy the X800XL and also trying to justify the price difference. You see, what is a $50 difference in the USA, can be a $200 dollar difference in Singapore, or who knows how much of a difference in Europe. Currency, shipping, handling, tax, etc charges come into play and the pricing difference can become huge.

Right now, I can tell you this, the 6600GT is the best value in many parts of the world. If you can even find a X800XL, it's still a good tidy sum more expensive than the 6600GT.

An X800 XL costs about the same as a 6800 GT, give or take 20$.

 

[dan2097]

One thing I find quite funny is that NO ONE would recommend an X700 series product over 6600 but everyone here is practically falling over themselves to prove X800 rules...
Strange days out here....

The X700XT is basically unavailable.

The X700 pro is slower than the 6660GT but is the same price

The X700 on the other hand is recommendable, being priced similar to the 6600 but offering definitly better performance. Previously it wasnt very available but that seems to be being corrected now

 

[Sandwich]

Either you don't read around the forum or you're asking for it....

It was enough to get forummers comparing the cards at pricepoints.

It seems pretty clear to most posters here that Ati needs to do more still. Basicly the only card that gets recommendation is the X800XL. Nobody is saying for instance how "great" the old X800Pro compared to the 6800GT.