Console design and manufacturing comparison - effective cooling yada yada *spawn

[MrFox]

Output temps of dumb plastic dont tell the whole history but junction-to-case thermal resistance in mosfet varies in 1.5 to 4C/W. My guess is at least 40C increase to the internal temps.

Going forward i would like to ask if someone knows the cost analysis in these decisions, like a 40 cent SiC heatsink could be used or is better a vaporchamber

You want a vapor chamber on the mosfets? Or you want to change the subject again?

A typical TO220 power mosfet is 1C/W junction to case. The PS4 power supply (by Delta, not Sony) is operating in it's most efficient range, so at most 15W to spread among the two mosfets, transfo losses, and conduction losses of the windings. At most you have 5W per mosfet, so the junction-to-case is a non issue. The heatsink of the mosfets could be above 100C and it still keeps the junction well below it's 175C rating.

 

[brunogm]

Nice someone is willing to answer with typical values! Vaporchamber cost effectiveness to heatpipes in APU cooling of course.
The thread reads "cooling and manufacturing comparison..." so price is a nice subject to compare solutions.

 

[MrFox]

Vapor chambers are fun and exotic... and they are not needed at these low power densities. They would be a waste of money. They are just heat spreaders needed for very powerful devices.

Power mosfets are so much more interesting...

 

[PeanutButterOnPickles]

As a consumer, I wouldn't use any of my points as negatives against the PS4 unless you are very sensitive to noise.

To be sensitive to noise or to not be is no excuse for a console to ship with that amount of noise. Remember there are very few choices for a consumer to choose from with the obvious slim pickings of console distributors (even more so today with proper software support). It's because of idiots like Sony's Playstation department that makes me lose confidence in having any hope with consoles. Thankfully, Microsoft addressed the issue with the Xbox One as they too were just as big of idiots with launching one of the worst consoles on a hardware level that I have ever seen, the original Xbox 360; ten years ago was a dark place with consoles in my opinion, and by god the PC became a beacon of light to steer from the stupidity with console manufactures.

So please understand there are some of us who probably do not comment much on web forums that appreciates the decisions with the Xbox One on a hardware level : )

 

[Prophecy2k]

Keep it classy folks... both companies have some of the most talented HW engineers in the world working on their HW. They were given a specification and were tasked to design a piece of HW within those very specific physical and economic constraints. Both did a sterling job, making very different and very reasonable design choices based on the specifications they were given.

I personally don't have any problem with the noise level of my launch PS4, and in fact my GTX 970 on my PC alone is louder than my Ps4 in totality. So I basically disagree with all you said and I think you need to tone it down if you want to continue being allowed to post on these forums. The B3D community generally holds itself to a higher standard that elsewhere on the net, and is all the better for it.

kthnxbye

 

[PeanutButterOnPickles]

I personally don't find anything sterling about packaged off the shelf PC hardware in a console with inadequate performance characteristics of what I expect from consoles when choice is only between two manufactures that has proper software support. My opinion.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

To be sensitive to noise or to not be is no excuse for a console to ship with that amount of noise.

It could have been quieter if it was 1) less powerful or 2) more expensive. Either of which compromise would have its own detractors. "It's all very well PS4 being silent, but I can't afford $400 for a gaming machine where I can't hear the fan over the game sounds anyway. What the hell were Sony's engineers thinking with that tiny space-tech water cooling solution?! Completely overengineered. They just needed a simple fan and cooler and sell the thing at $300."

 

[PeanutButterOnPickles]

It could have been quieter if it was 1) less powerful or 2) more expensive.

Probably, that could of been the situation on the table, but if that's the case then give up some power and be a console.

I should not be able to bring a new piece of hardware in my home that is outclass by a device from 20+ years ago. My SNES laughed at the Xbox 360 pulling in an extraordinary amount of current from the wall socket and dieing off. I will not bring a PS4 in my house for my SNES to laugh at for being the loudest thing in the room.

 

[Pixel]

Ps4 fan is smaller than the Xbox one fan and has to spin at higher RPM. Also the fact cool air is pulled in from the sides, and pushed out through the back in this centrifugal cooling design which allows for a vertically narrower smaller formfactor dictates that the fan will need to spin faster near peak power draw than the bulkier design Xbox One has which can allow for some amount of passive cooling through the vents above the apu/heatsink/fan at the top of the system. Couple that with the internal power supply and the higher power draw of the ps4 due to the larger amount of logic in its gpu and you see why the fan has to spin faster.

 

[orangpelupa]

Btw sony fixed the noise issue on the new ps4. It runs cooler, have less chips.

On old ps4, the noise only become issue while playing 60 fps game.

But surprisingly, in mgs v, the noise really add to the immersion. The fan only ramp up to hilariously loud in ACC (sitting inside helicopter). In that scene, the helicopter sound feels more immersive with ps4 noise.

 

[steveOrino]

in a console with inadequate performance characteristics of what I expect from consoles

"Inadequate" performance characteristics and consoles go hand and hand because they have been historically priced in the 300-400 dollar range. Nothing has changed other than a larger portion of the BoM going towards the input devices include with some consoles.

but if that's the case then give up some power and be a console.

Get a tablet, cellphone, apple tv, OUYA, etc. Zero noise and gigantic software library and support, then your SNES can laugh for totally different reasons.

I am certain if noise was such a huge factor you would have given up on consoles during the 6th generation.

 

[DJ12]

I always find these threads where fanboys use the argument of not getting console A because of 'reasons' when it's blatantly obvious they had no intention to anyway and are just using it to gain a small win for themselves to gain some holiday cheer.

 

[Nesh]

To be sensitive to noise or to not be is no excuse for a console to ship with that amount of noise. Remember there are very few choices for a consumer to choose from with the obvious slim pickings of console distributors (even more so today with proper software support). It's because of idiots like Sony's Playstation department that makes me lose confidence in having any hope with consoles. Thankfully, Microsoft addressed the issue with the Xbox One as they too were just as big of idiots with launching one of the worst consoles on a hardware level that I have ever seen, the original Xbox 360; ten years ago was a dark place with consoles in my opinion, and by god the PC became a beacon of light to steer from the stupidity with console manufactures.

So please understand there are some of us who probably do not comment much on web forums that appreciates the decisions with the Xbox One on a hardware level : )

I sometimes wonder where you people keep your consoles to be that noisy. I have to admit that my PS4 was kinda noisy during the summer (not that it was very noisy btw) due to too much heat, but during winter it is almost silent. I havent experienced the XB1 noise levels in the same hot conditions so I am not sure if they are comparable
You lost confidence because of the noise level of the PS4?

 

[PeanutButterOnPickles]

Nesh you're one of few people that I've met that still commands common sense, and I task you -as I am becoming too old- to protect the human race on its quest to evolving into cybernetic organisms with the end result of computers become more of a threat in supplanting basic common sense. Please carry these honors, my friend.

Remember, there are only two console manufactures that manages proper software support. It only takes one decision from both camps to have a huge impact on the consumer experience. Responsively, Microsoft addressed the expectation and I can now purchase a console, today.

 

[BRiT]

I sometimes wonder where you people keep your consoles to be that noisy.

Under their cat.

 

[PeanutButterOnPickles]

Nesh you're one of few people that I've met that still commands common sense, and I task you -as I am becoming too old- to protect the human race on its quest to evolving into cybernetic organisms with the end result of computers become more of a threat in supplanting basic common sense. Please carry these honors, my friend.

Remember, there are only two console manufactures that manages proper software support. It only takes one decision from both camps to have a huge impact on the consumer experience. Responsively, Microsoft addressed the expectation and I can now purchase a console, today.

becoming* for spelling.


Anyway, happy holidays everyone.

 

[PeanutButterOnPickles]

For non-believers.

-Peanutbutteronpickles

 

[Nesh]

Nesh you're one of few people that I've met that still commands common sense, and I task you -as I am becoming too old- to protect the human race on its quest to evolving into cybernetic organisms with the end result of computers become more of a threat in supplanting basic common sense. Please carry these honors, my friend.

Remember, there are only two console manufactures that manages proper software support. It only takes one decision from both camps to have a huge impact on the consumer experience. Responsively, Microsoft addressed the expectation and I can now purchase a console, today.

What were the expectations?

 

[PeanutButterOnPickles]

I take my honors back. Peanut won't be on these message boards for a while.

 

[Nesh]

Lets say that I am totally confused and I could not catch your humor or the meaning of your sarcastic attempt