Cheng on Avivo

[Geo]

Don't look now, but those who like to cast the L'Inq and all their works into outer darkness, should take a look at a quite useful interview with Godfrey Cheng, ATI multimedia marketing director, here:

http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=26937

A few highlights, idiosyncratically selected:

If I had to compare Avivo against our competition, I would say that our esteemed competition is very much focused on DVD playback only while not addressing other critical parts of the video and display pipeline. Avivo is more comprehensive and much more robust, we seek to systematically address each and every step along the way.

Video Quality should be viewed very much like 3D performance, both improve over time. In our first product release of the X1K family, we were very much focused on 3D performance so the video quality has not yet been tuned. We know with 100% certainty we have the best video & display hardware. So our customers can expect gradual and significant improvements in video quality and performance with every Catalyst release. ATI will deliver the best video quality across the board and top-to-bottom.

One of the things I thot quite interesting, but did not get much attention, was Anand's IQ comparo piece with Avivo vs Pure Video here: http://www.anandtech.com/video/showdoc.aspx?i=2551

It used a high-end video-specific testing platform. Avivo, alas, did not come off as well as I would have expected, given ATI's history and the investment in this new tech.

I would like to think that Cheng's answers above both point at the reason, and promise this is a short-term issue that will be addressed.

It'd be great to get Cheng to give us his analysis (I'm sure he must have made one) of what he sees in the Anand IQ comparo piece, and what they are going to do about it.

 

[BrynS]

A rather informative piece from L'Inq. I chuckled at Cheng's last answer, "Fudo, how am I supposed to answer this?"

I caught the Anandtech AVIVO vs PureVideo comparison about a week ago and was quite surprised at the results, given AVIVO's technical specs and ATI's pedigree in that field I was expecting a clear lead over PureVideo, but would be willing to chalk it up to early days with the implementation and optimisation. Although I haven't seen PureVideo in action, Alan /.effect Dang's coverage of it (in the 7800GTX) and comparison with professional scalers from Gennum, raised PureVideo in my estimation.

Fudo's piece on the birth of R520 appeared to be more comprehensive than his usual contributions. He obviously hasn't heard quite the same info as Dave regarding the reason affecting the soft-ground issue, otherwise I would have expected a sensationalist blurb along the lines of "How TSMC nearly killed R520."

 

[stevem]

Nvidia grabbed the top Sonic guy specifically for codec prowess, so I wasn't surprised to see that Puervideo works well.

 

[Dave Baumann]

If you have any more questions on AVIVO then put em down in here.

 

[FrameBuffer]

If you have any more questions on AVIVO then put em down in here.

Does Avivo currently support h264 transcoding(encoding) in hardware ? If so what kind of % decrease (in CPU utilization) can one expect for encode/transcode ? What about decode % cpu utilization ?

If Avivo is not currently enabled to make use of H.264 (through drivers or mmc), when can the public expect such features to be enabled ? A relative timeline would be helpful (ie before Christmas, after New Years, Q2 2006 etc).

Will ATI release software to take advantage of h264 acceleraion (via Multi Media Center) ?
What about support for the enthuiast market where use of h264 is quickly becoming the defacto codec,. will ATI be addressing the concerns of this market ? Is ATI currently working with 3rd parties for support of h.264 and will ATI encorporate any such "fruits of labor" into MMC or another software package ?

 

[AlphaWolf]

I'd like to hear what he has to say on blu-ray, HD-DVD support, but I don't expect he's going to answer based on what he said in the inquirer article.

 

[Geo]

If you have any more questions on AVIVO then put em down in here.

To be just slightly more specific than I was upstream, "Are there any IQ deficits vs Pure Video as shown in the Anandtech piece which would require new/modified hardware to correct, rather than optimizing the software for your new tech?"

And continuing on the h.264 theme a bit longer --ATI promoted this feature fairly heavily, yet shipped the product without software support as of yet. It is the unfortunate case that the graphics community has on occasion had to wait a considerable amount of time for software support for a feature that IHV's have promised as part of the launch --when do you expect that h.264 software support will be available to the public for Avivo?

 

[IgnorancePersonified]

yeh h.264 decode + encode support is my biggest concern.

It looks like decode is working from the xbit labs review but after the nv40 charade I don't want to be burnt.

Im thinking midrande pci-e h.264 capable card in the short term then moving up a notch in the 3D side later.

link

 

[Geo]

yeh h.264 decode + encode support is my biggest concern.

It looks like decode is working from the xbit labs review but after the nv40 charade I don't want to be burnt.

Im thinking midrande pci-e h.264 capable card in the short term then moving up a notch in the 3D side later.

link

Interesting. Certainly the HD playback numbers look good there, but is that what it means? I just ask, because that well-known video slut, DemoCoder, assured me that it had shipped without h.264 software support enabled --tho perhaps he was mistaken, or meant encode (did they promise encode?).

 

[Rys]

Yeah, encode is what's missing just now. Decode for playback works (although maybe only with certain software since I was certain a DXVA interface for H.264 was missing and I've not tested too much yet).

 

[neliz]

Ati's clear deficit is the de-interlacing part, although we saw quite some improvements allready, will there be an alternative to the default options available now for those of us that DO have power-hungry graphics adapters available?

 

[Dave Baumann]

Encode wasn't on the cards for H.264 as of yet, the only encode solutions would be Theater and that's MPEG2 for the forseeable future. What they were talking about was accelerated transcode, which it basically conversion from one format to another - when or how that will be achieved is a question. Seeing as Godfrey has offered to field your questions, though, so perhaps we can get some stuff answered (I'm surprised that nobody has touched on the DRM subject yet).

 

[Geo]

(I'm surprised that nobody has touched on the DRM subject yet).

Surly acquiesence to the invevitable?

 

[Sxotty]

(I'm surprised that nobody has touched on the DRM subject yet).

Actually as stupid as it may be I trusted you would delve into the issue without any prodding as it is obviously of paramount concern. What of course people want to hear is that ATI is fighting for our rights.

 

[AlphaWolf]

Surly acquiesence to the invevitable?

There's no point in being surly about it.

 

[Dave Baumann]

Actually as stupid as it may be I trusted you would delve into the issue without any prodding as it is obviously of paramount concern.

As a matter of fact it is the first, and only question I've fired back before mentioning it. However, as someone who sees supporting it in hardware as an enabler rather than a disabler I may not have asked the question that you want.

 

[Sxotty]

Dave, I am not a wild eyed person who wants to dowload everything illegally and so forth, however I am worried that the whole copy protection thing can go to far.

Many hardware manufacturers such as Sony have a vested interest in this stuff in that they produce media and hardware, they can "protect" their media and at the same time force people to by new hardware. Unfortunately, I think that these things will go to far.

It seems to me ATI has a self interest in providing consumer friendly goods because they do not produce software/media (well besides stuff they give away like drivers/demos). Anyway I would like to be able to record TV in the future still. I built a HTPC (and have an ATI card in it btw) and I love the thing, I like to be able to record shows and then if I keep them show them to someone else on a computer on the LAN. I am worried that things as simple as this will not work later if DRM becomes too draconian.

 

[Geo]

With such feature-rich multimedia now built in to every X1000 card, what do they see as the primary value-add of the AIW series going forward?

How easy/hard necessary/unnecessary is it for third party video playback software makers (Real, etc) to include support for the new hardware in their products --how is that process proceeding, and does he expect most/all of them to include it in relatively short order? What kind of feedback have they been getting from the pros in that community on the new stuff?

With their increased emphasis on digital photography, does this bring the Photoshops and Paint Shop Pros (my axe of choice) of the world into the fold of developers that they need to be working with to ensure that their products are getting max advantage of ATIs new toys --or is it a "just works" thing? If the former, how's that going?

 

[Geo]

As a matter of fact it is the first, and only question I've fired back before mentioning it. However, as someone who sees supporting it in hardware as an enabler rather than a disabler I may not have asked the question that you want.

Okay, I'll play firestarter.

Why have they sold their soul to the fatcats, comitting High Treason to the community in the process, re DRM? How can they possibly justify being a part of taking away from us abilities that have been part and parcel of our pc and video watching/saving experience since the dawn of time? Do they not realize that our wrath will be terrible, and that we will support other products that do not treat us all as sleazeball pirates for wanting to be able to save that which we have either already paid for or that which was provided for free?

That the kind of thing you wanted with someone elses name on it?

 

[IgnorancePersonified]

I was under the impression that encode was a feature of the x1-range but maybe like geo is asking that is now the domain of the aiw's? That would be good to know.

I bet the cpu utilisation numbers drop with later driver updates. Are AVIVO updates going to be inline with cataylst re-lease's or separate to that.
Cheers.