Cheap remote included in x360 preimum

[PARANOiA]

I think it's important to understand the criticism of the two-teir structure at the moment.

The main arguement is that the $299 doesn't do a lot of the "hot features" that have been discussed and announced since (and prior to) E3. This includes:

• A hard disk, to have as both a giant memory card, and provide improved gameplay.
• High-definition gaming

These are pretty big misses. The cheapest way to get these features is to buy a "premium" pack. In this pack, for an extra $100, you get a bunch of useless shit including a faceplate and a DVD remote inferior to the off-the-shelf model.

I believe what others are trying to express, and what I am trying to express, is I'd rather have a $350 machine that does HD, has a HDD, and the promised Live Silver package. The rest I'll buy if I want, but in my head this machine does not do HD, nor does it do hard disk caching to improve my experience. I have to pay extra for this.

Bleh!

 

[Acert93]

If you go backward, the core pack should have been $199 instead of $299. Think about it.
Don't get fooled by MS.

Lets think about it.

Periphrials are very profitable.

$40 controller probably cost $15 to make, market, and ship. Take off retailer profits and you still make money.

Ethernet cable? Please. $10 value, $1 in stuff (I personally have a large spool and a crimp... MUCH cheaper)

Remote? $30 retail... $3 material.

Headset? $20 retail... $3 plastic.

And so on.

The console? As we ALL know, retailers usually make $0 on a console (they make money on games/accessories). And MS is surely losing money on the 360 right now.

I am a little shocked someone would even suggest this. 3 core PPC CPU (165M transistors), 332M transistor GPU (to compare, X800 is 160M), south bridge chip, scaler chip, 12x DVD drive, water block heat sink, passively cooled HS for GPU, 512MB of 700MHz GDDR3 memory, 200W+ power supply, AV cables, controller, etc...

Look at the cost of a GPU with 512MB of memory, large GPU chip, etc... You are looking at $400 retail. When you add the processor, DVD drive, power supply, etc... and it is pretty amazing they are hitting $300.

Again, shocked at the suggestion.

 

[jvd]

I guess you expect to have everything handed to you at or below cost don't you? That's what you're wanting. You're wanting the console at the $299 price with their slim initial margins on it. On top of that you're wanting both the hard drive (a 2.5" one with SATA interface no less) and a wireless controller for $50 or less. You really don't realize that the $399 bundle is indeed a good deal. Do you honestly believe Microsoft is making any kind of worthwhile margin with all those accessories at $100 extra? If you do you seriously need to step back and think about it. You've totally lost your mind man.

You don't seem to understand

They are giving me a 200$ of extra stuff for 100$ added to the price . Why can't they give me an extra 100$ of stuff added to base package in the form of the hardrive. They are obvouslys willlng to eat 100$ at the 400$ price range. Why not eat 100$ at the 300$ price range .


Ms claims that the hardrive is worth 100$ based on thier priceing and so based on thier pricing those acessorys included in the preimum package are worth 100$ . So once again we are getting 200$ of more stuff with only a 100$ increase to cost .

Logicly if they are willing to loose 100$ at 400$ they are obvouslys willing to loose 100$ at 300$ and thus a hardrive included .

The math is there

 

[V3]

Lets think about it.

Periphrials are very profitable.

$40 controller probably cost $15 to make, market, and ship. Take off retailer profits and you still make money.

Ethernet cable? Please. $10 value, $1 in stuff (I personally have a large spool and a crimp... MUCH cheaper)

Remote? $30 retail... $3 material.

Headset? $20 retail... $3 plastic.

And so on.

The console? As we ALL know, retailers usually make $0 on a console (they make money on games/accessories). And MS is surely losing money on the 360 right now.

I am a little shocked someone would even suggest this. 3 core PPC CPU (165M transistors), 332M transistor GPU (to compare, X800 is 160M), south bridge chip, scaler chip, 12x DVD drive, water block heat sink, passively cooled HS for GPU, 512MB of 700MHz GDDR3 memory, 200W+ power supply, AV cables, controller, etc...

Look at the cost of a GPU with 512MB of memory, large GPU chip, etc... You are looking at $400 retail. When you add the processor, DVD drive, power supply, etc... and it is pretty amazing they are hitting $300.

Again, shocked at the suggestion.

I am suggesting a price structured, that make core pack with mix and matching or upgrading later seems more worth it in the eye of consumer. Instead of what it is now, the premium pack overshadowed the core pack with mix and matching. (Because that's what MS said in their Q&A, they want people to mix and match)

Look when dealing with lost leader you aren't going to make money at first, might as well create a price structure that make consumer happy and go for penetration instead.

 

[Inane_Dork]

Logicly if they are willing to loose 100$ at 400$ they are obvouslys willing to loose 100$ at 300$ and thus a hardrive included .

If those were logically the same figures, yes. But they're not necessarily so.

Ever occured to you that the premium bundle will only lose about as much money per unit as the core SKU?

Say you buy Everybody Loves Raymond, Season #2 on DVD. That's about $38 for 5 DVDs. Well, why can't they sell regular movies for $7.60 then?

And please, try to respond with one quote.

 

[jvd]

If those were logically the same figures, yes. But they're not necessarily so.

Ever occured to you that the premium bundle will only lose about as much money per unit as the core SKU?

Yes and then i factored it out

300$ cost of console core package looses 0$ preimum looses 100$

400$ cost of console core package looses 100$ premium looses 200$

500$ cost of system core package looses 200$ preimum looses 300$

So really don't see how it can . You have 200$ of extra stuff with only 100$ price increase . So your allways going to spend an extra 100$ on the preimum pack

Now of course i don't expect the components to actually cost ms 100$ but that is the value to ms if they were should through retail. I also don't expect the hardrive to cost ms 100$ . But they feel they can sell it for that price.

 

[rabidrabbit]

I strongly believe that this two sku's and pricing issues really in reality is only pissing off the, I apologise for the word, forum xbox funkyboys.

The HD is not an essential part of the hardware, all the xbox360 games are playable with the xbox360 core package.
For extra features like backwards compatibility, downloadable Live content, media features... you pay extra.
Paying that extra you still have much the same basic gaming experience, but you gain some customability to the games and the console functions.

What matters most is that the basic gaming experience is the same for those who bought either the core or premium bundles.

Leaving out the high def cable from the core package is neither a big deal in mainstream consumer point of view, especially as HD is only limited to gaming.
Who uses HD, buys the HD cable.
I agree, it would be better if the cable was a standard like HDMI one would be able to shop for lower prices, but all consoles up to PS3 have had only some proprietary connectors so that's expected.

...now what was I trying to say.... oh yes, I think all this offpissedness echoes mostly from the minds of those fb's who have until now strongly hoped that the HD would be standard in every xbox360, and that would give xbox360 the edge in games as the HD was also one of their biggest weapon against PS2 this gen.
Now they've lost that advantage in specs over PS3, and that makes them sad.
All that build-up agains Sony and PS3, and now this letdown... xbox360 has lost it's one true advantage it was believed to have over PS3, the "built in" HD

Get over it, the xbox360 is still a competitive, impressive piece of gaming kit.

 

[jvd]

Xbox 360 Media Remote: The integrated control center for the entire digital experience, available at launch with Xbox 360 (for a limited time) and also sold separately. Play DVD movies and music, plus access Windows® XP Media Center 2005-based PC with a single remote.

http://www.xbox.com/en-US/xbox360/xbox360choice.htm

They are saying its the same remote and its clearly not

 

[rabidrabbit]

But it's FREE

 

[JasonLD]

I strongly believe that this two sku's and pricing issues really in reality is only pissing off the, I apologise for the word, forum xbox funkyboys.

The HD is not an essential part of the hardware, all the xbox360 games are playable with the xbox360 core package.
For extra features like backwards compatibility, downloadable Live content, media features... you pay extra.
Paying that extra you still have much the same basic gaming experience, but you gain some customability to the games and the console functions.

What matters most is that the basic gaming experience is the same for those who bought either the core or premium bundles.

Leaving out the high def cable from the core package is neither a big deal in mainstream consumer point of view, especially as HD is only limited to gaming.
Who uses HD, buys the HD cable.
I agree, it would be better if the cable was a standard like HDMI one would be able to shop for lower prices, but all consoles up to PS3 have had only some proprietary connectors so that's expected.

...now what was I trying to say.... oh yes, I think all this offpissedness echoes mostly from the minds of those fb's who have until now strongly hoped that the HD would be standard in every xbox360, and that would give xbox360 the edge in games as the HD was also one of their biggest weapon against PS2 this gen.
Now they've lost that advantage in specs over PS3, and that makes them sad.
All that build-up agains Sony and PS3, and now this letdown... xbox360 has lost it's one true advantage it was believed to have over PS3, the "built in" HD

Get over it, the xbox360 is still a competitive, impressive piece of gaming kit.

Problem is not the premium version, but how crappy core version is compared to premium version. If peripherials were reasonably priced, then there will be a reason to get core version and get some upgrades that u need, but with those outrageous pricing on peripherials, u either get premium version or get screwed with basic version that only plays games but missing every great stuff MS has talked about having with Xb360..how great is that?? Core version is something that should never existed..

 

[rabidrabbit]

Core version is something that should never have existed to help xbox360 keep that edge over PS3 in the console forum wars.

Core verion is something that should exist because none of the accessories are required for a functioning xbox360 experience.

Core verion is something that should exist because xbox360 is designed to work just fine without the HD and other extras. The xbox360 is designed so to keep the cost down, to be able to lower the costs in the long run and to remain competitive.

Core version is something that should exist because the sub $300 price point isn't realistically possible otherwise. A $299 price is pretty much what a next gen console is expected to cost, a single sku higher than $300 would have been too expensive considering the xbox brand needs to gain marketshare, there is still competition from current gen and even PS3 and Revolution, even though they will be released after.

Core version is something that should never have existed to help givwe hope to forum fighters who desperately just want SONY fail.

 

[Carl B]

Because it's a limited time offer an incentive like so many other things in life. It's a reward for those who buy now instead of waiting.

Anyway regarding the controller. The Wavebird is around $25 - $30 and it doesn't come with rechargeable batteries nor a recharger nor rumble function. They probably could've added the wireless controller with 2 AA alkalines and kept it at $299 though.

Yes, let's talk about the controllers.

Microsoft's new controller pricing is $40 per wired controller, and $50 for a wireless; sans batteries, recharger, etc...

It's a new paradigm in accessory pricing - in a bad way!

Truth be told though, last night before I went to bed I did think of one aspect of the core system that's quasi-redeeming. For the PC-savvy individual - ok you could stream if you wanted but that's nothing new - but in addition, you get the wired controller. Worse than the wireless? Maybe. But it will supposedly work with Vista's 'virtual console' environment, so one less $40 item you may need to buy in the future if you're also a PC gamer.

 

[PC-Engine]

What really boggles my mind is the WiFi adapter at $100!! WTF? I don't use ethernet in my home!!! Hopefully 3rd party USB WiFi adapters are cheaper.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

Depends on MS's licensing. I don't expect 3rd party Licensed peripherals to be inline pricewise with PC components.

 

[Guden Oden]

They are saying its the same remote and its clearly not

"Specifications subject to change without notice."
You find these disclaimers on virtually all press releases and such.

Anyway, I don't understand what you're so upset about. Either you buy the damn console or you don't. Simple as that!

 

[Shifty Geezer]

You do have the annoying situation where you want the full rremote, buy the value pack, and then get a redundant cut0down remotr. I'd rather if there's that many optional extras they were kept as purchasable extras, without costing an arm and leg. Core+HDD+remote+wireless controller is too much. For the same reason I'm not happy with the PSP Value pack we're lumbered with. I'd rather select my own headphones and memory stick than have to buy items I don't want.

 

[Tim]

Yes and then i factored it out

300$ cost of console core package looses 0$ preimum looses 100$

400$ cost of console core package looses 100$ premium looses 200$

The $200 are retail value, the cost for MS is nowhere $200, it most likely a good deal below $100.

 

[Johnny Awesome]

Who cares? Anyone that is going to miss out on Gears of War and Halo 3, among other games for an extra measly $100 out of a total of $2000-$3000 they will spend on their next-gen console over the coming years is an idiot IMO.

At the end of the day, out of the 25% that are bitching only 10% of those (2.5%) will actually pass on X360 for any of this IMO. It just won't be relevant 4 months from now.

 

[nondescript]

Core version is something that should never have existed to help xbox360 keep that edge over PS3 in the console forum wars.

Core verion is something that should exist because none of the accessories are required for a functioning xbox360 experience.

Core verion is something that should exist because xbox360 is designed to work just fine without the HD and other extras. The xbox360 is designed so to keep the cost down, to be able to lower the costs in the long run and to remain competitive.

Core version is something that should exist because the sub $300 price point isn't realistically possible otherwise. A $299 price is pretty much what a next gen console is expected to cost, a single sku higher than $300 would have been too expensive considering the xbox brand needs to gain marketshare, there is still competition from current gen and even PS3 and Revolution, even though they will be released after.

Core version is something that should never have existed to help givwe hope to forum fighters who desperately just want SONY fail.

Well said. I think there's a lot of overreaction right now. It's disappointing that the HDD will be relegated to a marginal status, but given its underutilization in Xbox (where it was standard), this appears justified.

When the dust settles, I think it will be clear that MS made a good choice.

[EDIT: This doesn't mean that MS can just blow off its fan base, however...more than any other console, Xbox relies on serious gamers for its business...MS should take the concerns of forum-goers seriously, at least much more so than Sony or Nintendo]

 

[Johnny Awesome]

Not true. The vast majority of Xbox owners are not hardcore gamers, just like the PS2.