CELL will be there in PS3!

[Paul]

Here is logic . Rdy for it ? Cell is designed to be used in many diff products. From cell phones to discmans. Could it just be that do to cost and time constraints the cell chip will be used in Sony tv's , vcr's , dvd players , blue ray players , camera's , video camera's , discmans , walk mans , car raido's and whatever else sony sells. Which accounts for 50% of sonys proffits ? Thus seeding the industry for the console after ps3 to use a version of the cell chip. Due to the ps3 needing to come out at a certian cost and mabye problems in cell production.


Or here is another piece of lodgic . Cell is meant for ps3 since 2001. Sony is god and nothing could ever go wrong for sony. Even though we now have reports that the cell chip wont be in the ps3 and or the ps3 is delayed till 2007 nope it will all be out by 2005 cause sony is gods.


You pick which is more logical . Then read all the posts and see who is putting the logical discusions into the forums.

First off skippy, don't have an orgasm, the quote wasn't directed towards you.

All this crap about Cell not being in ps3 has been proven wrong, your main article of debate jvd, the designchain article has been proven wrong again and again. By SCEI, by Sony, and by the author admitting that he didn't get a DIRECT quote by Kutagari, but rather based it on what he "thought".

You talk about "logic" yet you are a hypocrit yourself, here's logic. Show me evidence of the "second" ps3 chip, show me the funding in sony's yearly reports. There is nothing, it's a version of Cell or nothing for ps3.

You argue for the sake of arguing, even though what you say isn't based on anything worth beliving. You fail to look at the facts and continue to look at the designchain article, which has been taken down by SCEI and a host of other articles.

Diskmans, tv's, being seed's for Cell? I don't think so, while they do sell, it's not enough to build up a "network" as Sony wants. If anything ps3 is the seed, with that having a version of Cell in it first, than everything else following.

Stop following dated sources of information. We already have Sony, as well as SCEI saying Cell will be in ps3. We also have the Cell patent that makes direct reference to ps3, we have alot more. And all you hold onto is the dated designchain article, and we all know how that turned out.

 

[V3]

Here is logic . Rdy for it ? Cell is designed to be used in many diff products. From cell phones to discmans. Could it just be that do to cost and time constraints the cell chip will be used in Sony tv's , vcr's , dvd players , blue ray players , camera's , video camera's , discmans , walk mans , car raido's and whatever else sony sells. Which accounts for 50% of sonys proffits ? Thus seeding the industry for the console after ps3 to use a version of the cell chip. Due to the ps3 needing to come out at a certian cost and mabye problems in cell production.

After the first sentence, you lost me. V3 has no idea what you mean by this point, JVD.

Or here is another piece of lodgic . Cell is meant for ps3 since 2001. Sony is god and nothing could ever go wrong for sony. Even though we now have reports that the cell chip wont be in the ps3 and or the ps3 is delayed till 2007 nope it will all be out by 2005 cause sony is gods.

This one, V3 understands, so this one is more logical than the other point.

PS2 was meant to launch in 1997, with PS3 in 2003 and PS4 in 2011, that was Sony's plan after PSX.

 

[jvd]

Paul if you bothered to actually read posts u will see i was not the one who brought up that article again . I was responding to deepak who posted a follow up on the article . Second of all I'm not the one having an orgasam. Who was the post directed towards . It came right after my post going against vince .

I don't need to show u evidence. It could be a liscensed chip from another company. It could be a speed upgrade of the ee for all we know. Problem is we don't know .

 

[jvd]

Here is logic . Rdy for it ? Cell is designed to be used in many diff products. From cell phones to discmans. Could it just be that do to cost and time constraints the cell chip will be used in Sony tv's , vcr's , dvd players , blue ray players , camera's , video camera's , discmans , walk mans , car raido's and whatever else sony sells. Which accounts for 50% of sonys proffits ? Thus seeding the industry for the console after ps3 to use a version of the cell chip. Due to the ps3 needing to come out at a certian cost and mabye problems in cell production.

After the first sentence, you lost me. V3 has no idea what you mean by this point, JVD.

Or here is another piece of lodgic . Cell is meant for ps3 since 2001. Sony is god and nothing could ever go wrong for sony. Even though we now have reports that the cell chip wont be in the ps3 and or the ps3 is delayed till 2007 nope it will all be out by 2005 cause sony is gods.

This one, V3 understands, so this one is more logical than the other point.

PS2 was meant to launch in 1997, with PS3 in 2003 and PS4 in 2011, that was Sony's plan after PSX.

God i really hope u are kidding.

 

[Paul]

"Paul if you bothered to actually read posts u will see i was not the one who brought up that article again."

You bring it up time and time again and base your "cell not being in ps3" arguments off of it.

"Who was the post directed towards . It came right after my post going against vince."

Comparing Vince and Chap as a whole.

" don't need to show u evidence."

Then your wrong. No evidence = speculation, which you have plenty of.

"It could be a liscensed chip from another company. It could be a speed upgrade of the ee for all we know."

Despite Sony confirming Cell to be in ps3 at a press conference this week huh?

 

[V3]

God i really hope u are kidding.

I am not, I really don't understand your first point, nor your second point actually.

 

[Almasy]

Here is logic . Rdy for it ? Cell is designed to be used in many diff products. From cell phones to discmans. Could it just be that do to cost and time constraints the cell chip will be used in Sony tv's , vcr's , dvd players , blue ray players , camera's , video camera's , discmans , walk mans , car raido's and whatever else sony sells. Which accounts for 50% of sonys proffits ? Thus seeding the industry for the console after ps3 to use a version of the cell chip. Due to the ps3 needing to come out at a certian cost and mabye problems in cell production.

Why would Kutaragi be so directly involved with tv´s, walkman´s and radio´s? You don´t make sense, this is all useless rhetoric.

Or here is another piece of lodgic . Cell is meant for ps3 since 2001. Sony is god and nothing could ever go wrong for sony. Even though we now have reports that the cell chip wont be in the ps3 and or the ps3 is delayed till 2007 nope it will all be out by 2005 cause sony is gods.

Yeah, Sony is totally evil, useless and couldn´t be able to launch PS3 by 2005/6 if their lives depended on it, despite of the many reports, PR releases and Kutaragi himself stating Cell would be ready to be fabricated by 2004.

Please just drop it, if you intend to disprove something that has already been proven, you NEED evidence. From where does this hipocritical stance come from (Sony is evil and useless, but N and MS can have the benefit of the doubt)?

 

[jvd]

"Paul if you bothered to actually read posts u will see i was not the one who brought up that article again."

You bring it up time and time again and base your "cell not being in ps3" arguments off of it.

I bring it up when its being discused I haven't brought it up in a very long time. Actually i never brought it up I responded to those who did .

"Who was the post directed towards . It came right after my post going against vince."

Comparing Vince and Chap as a whole.

They both come across equally bias

" don't need to show u evidence."

Then your wrong. No evidence = speculation, which you have plenty of.

"It could be a liscensed chip from another company. It could be a speed upgrade of the ee for all we know."

Despite Sony confirming Cell to be in ps3 at a press conference this week huh?

Here is proof. Sony putting more money into shrinking the die of the ee and gs . How about the liscense they have on the power pc chips . Or the countless other liscense they have. I'm not the one being stuborn I have allways said i believe the cell chip will be in the ps3. But I allow for the chance it wont be. Since many things point to it not being in there. I also doubt its performance because I know no one outside of sony , ibm and tosiba who can give estimates of what its power will be like.

 

[jvd]

God i really hope u are kidding.

I am not, I really don't understand your first point, nor your second point actually.

First point is basicly many things can go wrong and sony would still need to launch the ps3 sometime aftr the other consoles launch. The c an't wait 3 years after the other consoles launch. So if problems do apear with the cell chip they may have to move on to another chip. They can still make back the same amount of money using the chip in other devices that also make up 50% of thier profits.

Second point is that certian people on this board seem to think that sony can't fail or make mistakes.

 

[Paul]

I bring it up when its being discused I haven't brought it up in a very long time. Actually i never brought it up I responded to those who did .

Then why do continue to bring up how Cell won't be in ps3, when your main point of reference has already been proven wrong by SCEI, Sony and others?

They both come across equally bias

And you don't?

Here is proof. Sony putting more money into shrinking the die of the ee and gs . How about the liscense they have on the power pc chips . Or the countless other liscense they have. I'm not the one being stuborn I have allways said i believe the cell chip will be in the ps3. But I allow for the chance it wont be. Since many things point to it not being in there. I also doubt its performance because I know no one outside of sony , ibm and tosiba who can give estimates of what its power will be like.

You ARE stubborn, SONY AND SCEI has confirmed Cell being in PS3. You are the only who continues to beat the dead horse. Oh and sony wanting to shrink EE and GS even more is pretty obvious that they wan't to put that into ps3 to make it backwards compatable, as well as bring the price of ps2 down.

 

[Almasy]

First point is basicly many things can go wrong and sony would still need to launch the ps3 sometime aftr the other consoles launch. The c an't wait 3 years after the other consoles launch. So if problems do apear with the cell chip they may have to move on to another chip. They can still make back the same amount of money using the chip in other devices that also make up 50% of thier profits.

Second point is that certian people on this board seem to think that sony can't fail or make mistakes.

Yes, many things can go wrong, but if there is evidence that they´re going right, you as well need it to prove that they are going wrong. If not, you´re just being a jackass for the sake of being one.

Paul has already responded why Sony intends on reducing the size of EE/GS, and IIRC the PS3 patent has something to do with PPC.

 

[jvd]

I bring it up when its being discused I haven't brought it up in a very long time. Actually i never brought it up I responded to those who did .

Then why do continue to bring up how Cell won't be in ps3, when your main point of reference has already been proven wrong by SCEI, Sony and others?

They both come across equally bias

And you don't?

Here is proof. Sony putting more money into shrinking the die of the ee and gs . How about the liscense they have on the power pc chips . Or the countless other liscense they have. I'm not the one being stuborn I have allways said i believe the cell chip will be in the ps3. But I allow for the chance it wont be. Since many things point to it not being in there. I also doubt its performance because I know no one outside of sony , ibm and tosiba who can give estimates of what its power will be like.

You ARE stubborn, SONY AND SCEI has confirmed Cell being in PS3. You are the only who continues to beat the dead horse. Oh and sony wanting to shrink EE and GS even more is pretty obvious that they wan't to put that into ps3 to make it backwards compatable, as well as bring the price of ps2 down.

If you read the follow which was posted even now it c omes across both ways. Read it. IT was posted by deepak not by me. I have my bias. I have never admit otherwise. I allways speak my mind .

So me proof that the ee and gs shrink will be used in the ps3 for backwards compatablity .

 

[Almasy]

Panajev has already adressed the issue. Look for it jvd.

 

[jvd]

First point is basicly many things can go wrong and sony would still need to launch the ps3 sometime aftr the other consoles launch. The c an't wait 3 years after the other consoles launch. So if problems do apear with the cell chip they may have to move on to another chip. They can still make back the same amount of money using the chip in other devices that also make up 50% of thier profits.

Second point is that certian people on this board seem to think that sony can't fail or make mistakes.

Yes, many things can go wrong, but if there is evidence that they´re going right, you as well need it to prove that they are going wrong. If not, you´re just being a jackass for the sake of being one.

Paul has already responded why Sony intends on reducing the size of EE/GS, and IIRC the PS3 patent has something to do with PPC.

I have used articles pointed to the fact. Ibm saying cell wont be out till 2007 , the vp of sony saying it wont be used in the ps3. There is alot pointing that way or did you forget about the other like 16 pages of this thread.

 

[Almasy]

I have used articles pointed to the fact. Ibm saying cell wont be out till 2007 , the vp of sony saying it wont be used in the ps3. There is alot pointing that way or did you forget about the other like 16 pages of this thread.

The ARTICLE HAS ALREADY BEEN PROVED WRONG! Don´t you read the board you are supposed to mod? Those "quotes" and the 2007 figure came from the article, and turned out to be nothing but speculation from the author, dammit!

 

[zidane1strife]

Here is logic . Rdy for it ? Cell is designed to be used in many diff products. From cell phones to discmans. Could it just be that do to cost and time constraints the cell chip will be used in Sony tv's , vcr's , dvd players , blue ray players , camera's , video camera's , discmans , walk mans , car raido's and whatever else sony sells. Which accounts for 50% of sonys proffits ? Thus seeding the industry for the console after ps3 to use a version of the cell chip. Due to the ps3 needing to come out at a certian cost and mabye problems in cell production.


Or here is another piece of lodgic . Cell is meant for ps3 since 2001. Sony is god and nothing could ever go wrong for sony. Even though we now have reports that the cell chip wont be in the ps3 and or the ps3 is delayed till 2007 nope it will all be out by 2005 cause sony is gods.


You pick which is more logical . Then read all the posts and see who is putting the logical discusions into the forums .

Come on, even if it isn`t cell part of the philosophy of it is going to be in the ps3 cpu... All they basically need are a bunch of highly programmable parallel vertex shaders or vus, with a good gpu...

Their manufacturing appears to be on schedule, and toshiba even has some tech to manufacture embedded memory quite easy...

Developers have already started conceptualizing ps3 games, even first party dev.s like polyphony have said the next title(after gt4 of course.) in their best selling series will be for ps3... it is extremely likely sony will announce early 2004, and kill the xbox before it gains real market penetration...

 

[Phil]

jvd:

First point is basicly many things can go wrong and sony would still need to launch the ps3 sometime aftr the other consoles launch. The c an't wait 3 years after the other consoles launch. So if problems do apear with the cell chip they may have to move on to another chip. They can still make back the same amount of money using the chip in other devices that also make up 50% of thier profits.

Second point is that certian people on this board seem to think that sony can't fail or make mistakes.

Lets analsyse some things here, as I seem to think you're ignoring some debated points further back in this thread that may be quite relevant.

What do we know?

We basically know that Sony, IBM and Toshiba are working on a CELL processor and each of them are spending a huge amount of money into it. In addition, we have current reports that show huge amount of money invested by SCE into fabs that are said to manufacture said chip. We also know Sony's future plans as laid out by Vince. We also know that Sony Group has restructered themselves quite around SCE as a result - in addition to all these well-known facts, we also know that the PlayStation brand makes up to about half of Sony's entire income, which may I assume, has increased quite a bit since their jump into the market with PSX. Last but not least, we know that Kutaragi, the man behind PlayStation is working on Cell.

Following up on our recent debate jvd about how powerful mindshare is and how much Sony will have it by the end of this generation - they can launch anytime from 2005 until 2007 without being in a 'loosing position' [as long as they hold on to some important exclusives which they probably are already anyway].

So JVD, you think it's likely that Sony has the resources to have a side project incase CELL isn't ready, sort of a "plan-b", right? As Paul asked already, where's the prove that lays out the money that is being spent for this second chip? Also, seeing how expensive CELL is, how much do you think Sony is willing to spend for a "plan-b"-chip? They can't just dish out anything, as they need to be at least somewhat competitive as the industry leader. Doesn't quite add up to me. Also, I admit, I don't know much about chip manufacturing, but how many fabs does Sony have? Do they even have the resources to develop two such important chips?

The way I see it, CELL is a given as it's clearly the primary investement. As Vince laid it out, CELL is pretty much the next step and Sony has given clear indications of this lately, by announcing the fabs being upgraded/built, the huge investement and their interviews confirming what CELL is. Even if they do encounter problems while manufacturing the chip, they have the mindshare and the support backing them up. It might go wrong, but as things are now, they are still in a huge advantage. Seeing that Microsoft and Nintendo have not revealed any hints on what their working on, I suspect their in for a late 2005 release. Bearing that in mind, I could see Sony launching their console at the latest in march 2007, more likely sometime in 2006 or even 2005 if all goes well. There's a lot on stake, so I do believe Sony is working hard to make no mistakes.

So jvd, take this "logic" as starters. IMHO, CELL is trival to the development of PS3. If problems are encountered, I suspect that it will be delayed - I just don't see the scenario of them working on some second "tuned" EE - not after the money that's going into CELL and the potential power it holds, not to mention how PS3 fits in as the Computer Entertainment System into Sony's future plans of connecting their entire products.

 

[jvd]

I don't htink sony can be in a loosing postion. Now of course they can loose market share which will not be a good thing for them . But i doubt tehy will loose first place. All that really needs to happen is for ms and nintendo to catch up to sony. Say a 50 -25% 25% split of the market will hurt sony alot. Not just in this gen but in the following gen. That is what happened to nintnedo. They went from like a 90% market share to around a 60% market share in the 16bit gen.

Second on using other chips. A company would be pretty stupid not to have some sort of plan b ready . They don't need to be developing a new chip. They don't even need to mod an old chip (Which i think we can all agree a die shrunk ee with 32megs of on die ram running at 3ghz or more would still be a great cpu. Along with an upgraded gs or even the normal gs with 32 megs of on die ram running at about 3ghz. ) They could allways liscense out for a chip if worse comes to worse.

So jvd, take this "logic" as starters. IMHO, CELL is trival to the development of PS3. If problems are encountered, I suspect that it will be delayed - I just don't see the scenario of them working on some second "tuned" EE - not after the money that's going into CELL and the potential power it holds, not to mention how PS3 fits in as the Computer Entertainment System into Sony's future plans of connecting their entire products.

This is where i have problems with your points. You can only delay so much. If Ms launches in 2005 they can have up to a 2 year or more grace period where they are competing with an ancient ps2 (cause it will be ancient compared to 2005 pc hardware) Mindshare is great but even die hards jump ship quickly . If ms can make the hot new product for 2 years in a row they will have a very big lead in hardware units sold . They will also have better more developed tools to use . Not to mention if sony launchs over 2 years later ( which will never happen but if they have to wait for some huge problems with cell it could) Ms would be able to go into another hardware gen 2 years or so after the ps3 launchs.


Lots os problems can crop up. I've allways been told that in the tech sector every launch is like your first. A clean slate.

 

[Paul]

So me proof that the ee and gs shrink will be used in the ps3 for backwards compatablity .

Happen to read what I actually said? Or are you having trouble reading a quote again.

"Oh and sony wanting to shrink EE and GS even more is pretty obvious that they wan't to put that into ps3 to make it backwards compatable"

I'm guessing

 

[jvd]

So me proof that the ee and gs shrink will be used in the ps3 for backwards compatablity .

Happen to read what I actually said? Or are you having trouble reading a quote again.

"Oh and sony wanting to shrink EE and GS even more is pretty obvious that they wan't to put that into ps3 to make it backwards compatable"

I'm guessing

Okay then u are guessing . like i was when i said they could use a faster clocked ee and gs