CD prices officially dropped. It's about time.

[Joe DeFuria]

This is not an open question. It matters not whether I consider it pirating or not. The United States government considers it illegal, and that's all you need to worry about.

Since when do liberals care about the law, when there is personal gain at stake.

 

[Natoma]

Bigus called me a pirate for warezing fully functional software, seeing if I like it, and if I don't removing it from my computer, or purchasing it outright through the company that makes it if I do.

Yup, that makes you a pirate. If the company wanted you to be able to try before you buy, then they would offer you that option via a shareware version with expiry date, etc.

If a company doesn't offer a fully functional time trial or any trial at all of their software, I have absolutely no problem with finding an ISO or crack for the program and trying it out, completely functional, for myself. If I like it, I purchase it, always. If I don't, I remove it. But the point is I want to know what I'm buying, before I buy it. If that makes me a pirate, then I'm a pirate.

 

[Natoma]

Since when do liberals care about the law, when there is personal gain at stake.

Oh please. This coming from a guy that had no problem with conservatives lying through their teeth about imminent danger in order to sell a war, simply because the ends of removing a tyrant "justified" the means.

 

[Dr. Ffreeze]

Natoma,

But the point is I want to know what I'm buying, before I buy it.

The software is not yours. The software writers decided not to give you the option of a fully functional timed trial. What gives you the right to do what you want to do with someone else's property?

Dr. Ffreeze

 

[Joe DeFuria]

Oh please. This coming from a guy that had no problem with conservatives lying through their teeth about imminent danger in order to sell a war, simply because the ends of removing a tyrant "justified" the means.

Sorry, I have problems with anyone lying through thier teeth.

 

[Natoma]

The software is not yours. The software writers decided not to give you the option of a fully functional timed trial. What gives you the right to do what you want to do with someone else's property?

As I said, I want to know what I'm buying before I buy it. Software cannot be returned once it's been used. You open a game, it's yours forever, even if it's terrible. You pay for some spyware program and it sucks, your money is gone forever. This avenue is available to me to try a program before I commit my dollars to it. If it's awful, I get rid of it. If I like it, I go to the software maker and purchase it. I've done this with every piece of software on my machine from WinXP to Zone Alarm Pro to Norton Systemworks to WinZip to UT2K3. I see absolutely nothing wrong with it.

 

[Dr. Ffreeze]

Natoma,

I see absolutely nothing wrong with it.

If it is illegal, do you see anything wrong with it? If there are laws on the books making it illegal, does this have any bearing?

Dr. Ffreeze

 

[RussSchultz]

Sure, Natoma. I do the same thing at times.

The difference being I'll admit I steal it and not try to excuse myself through mental masturbation. It doesn't matter what YOU or I want that defines theft. It's what the owner allows.

 

[Natoma]

Oh please. This coming from a guy that had no problem with conservatives lying through their teeth about imminent danger in order to sell a war, simply because the ends of removing a tyrant "justified" the means.

Sorry, I have problems with anyone lying through thier teeth.

Oh, so you weren't one of the people saying "Well, we haven't found any WMD and even if we never find WMD we got rid of an awful tyrant and freed a people"? Gotcha.....

 

[Sxotty]

Which there's nothing wrong with.

There is something rotten though, the music industry is basically a monopoly, they do all sorts of things that should be illegal, and some are, they price fix by working together and deciding what the price should be for cd's. That is illegal, but people can get away with it.

They force radio stations to play songs that they choose or be subjected to unpaiable fees. This way they can determine which artists will become popular, and force artists to sign with them.

The main reason they are so fearful of piracy is that they loose control of what we are able to listen to. This is a good thing, and the best part is that most bands that are not on a huge label already do offer mp3's for free. But it would be nice for them to not have to pay for the bandwidth.

Recently I downloaded some bad religion songs, not ones they have for free I admit, b/c they only have their newest album with free mp3's, and then I went to buy the CD, but of course the record store did not have the one I wanted as it is not the newest one. In any case my opinion is that they should have streaming, low quality music that you can sample. Not 25 seconds but the whole song, sure we could copy it, but if it is low quality it offers the incentive to go buy it, and it is not simple to copy it so most people would not bother.

 

[Natoma]

Natoma,

I see absolutely nothing wrong with it.

If it is illegal, do you see anything wrong with it? If there are laws on the books making it illegal, does this have any bearing?

Dr. Ffreeze

There are many things that are illegal that I do not personally deem illegal. Anal and Oral sex up until a few months ago was one of them.

But that's just an aside and not the point. Since the company gets my money anyways if I like the product, I don't see it as stealing. If I determined that I liked the software and kept it on my machine without paying for it, then yes, I would consider that theft.

 

[Natoma]

Sure, Natoma. I do the same thing at times.

The difference being I'll admit I steal it and not try to excuse myself through mental masturbation. It doesn't matter what YOU or I want that defines theft. It's what the owner allows.

As I said earlier,

If a company doesn't offer a fully functional time trial or any trial at all of their software, I have absolutely no problem with finding an ISO or crack for the program and trying it out, completely functional, for myself. If I like it, I purchase it, always. If I don't, I remove it. But the point is I want to know what I'm buying, before I buy it. If that makes me a pirate, then I'm a pirate.

 

[Sxotty]

Do you really think Ferrarri would be more successful mass producing cars for $20,000?

Actually this is almost always true, i.e. mass producing cheaper cars = more money. It is a fact, but the consequence is that the name which is what they are selling loses value, and eventually they will not be able to charge a premium. Look to harley davidson as an example for awhile they made terrible motorbikes, and made tons of money b/c people like to have a "harley" as people began to realize they were trash however the name lost its allure and the company teetered on the edge of bankruptcy. The employees bought out the bigshots, and decided on the low volume high return method, they made quality bikes but sold them at more than normal price, and the name regained its allure and harley has once again reaped the rewards.

Similarly if the name looses its value with younger generations as seems to be likely from research then harley will have to figure out how to swing back to a low cost mass production type of model while still keeping high standards (i.e. manufacturing them in some third world country).

 

[Humus]

Would you feel better about it if I went to my friends who have hundreds of CDs between them and copied the ones I wanted for free instead?

No, because that's illegal as well.

Then millions of people who have been doing this since Cassette recorders came out in the 60s and 70s, not to mention VHS recorders in the 80s have been breaking the law. How often do you see people copy their tape or CD for a friend or family member, or make a tape of their movie for a friend or family member?

Um....it's illegal, Natoma, no matter how often they do it, or how commonplace it is.

Some comments here ...
Not sure if the law says something different in the US, but in Sweden the law makes a difference between copying for private use, and copying for redistribution. You can make personal copies of CD's, and you are also allowed to give away such copies to friends for free (though not for money). It's not legal to make a copy of a copy though.

 

[Humus]

Am I a thief if I purchase a CD off the street, and that CD was itself stolen?

Maybe not a thief, but it's still illegal to receive stolen goods.

 

[Natoma]

Some comments here ...
Not sure if the law says something different in the US, but in Sweden the law makes a difference between copying for private use, and copying for redistribution. You can make personal copies of CD's, and you are also allowed to give away such copies to friends for free (though not for money). It's not legal to make a copy of a copy though.

You are allowed to make personal copies of CDs and Cassettes, but not copies for your friends or family. Though the law might as well be you are allowed to give away copies to friends and family for free considering how many people do so.

 

[Humus]

Since when do liberals care about the law, when there is personal gain at stake.

I agree with most of your argumentation and I do disagree with Natoma as the thread developed towards the end. But that comment was quite silly.

 

[Humus]

There are many things that are illegal that I do not personally deem illegal. Anal and Oral sex up until a few months ago was one of them.

There's a difference between illegal and wrong. You may not consider something to be wrong, and that is something subjective. Something being illegal or not is highly objective though. However, you may not always think that something is wrong even because it's illegal.

If I would go to Alabama I would be sure not to bring a dildo because the use of dildos are illegal there (not that I would bring a dildo anywhere else or that I even own one for that matter). I consider that law to be extremely outdated and think it belongs to the 1800s. That law should have been done away with a century ago. My disapproval of such a law doesn't make the dildo more legal and I can't come with a "but I don't think it's wrong" in court. I don't consider the use of dildos wrong, but it would still be illegal.

 

[Natoma]

There are many things that are illegal that I do not personally deem illegal. Anal and Oral sex up until a few months ago was one of them.

There's a difference between illegal and wrong. You may not consider something to be wrong, and that is something subjective. Something being illegal or not is highly objective though. However, you may not always think that something is wrong even because it's illegal.

Indeed it is subjective. I accept that judgement from both sides wholeheartedly and openly. And yes, the meaning of my statement was there are many things that are illegal that I do not personally deem to be wrong. Same thought, incorrect wording.

 

[Silent_One]

If I would go to Alabama I would be sure not to bring a dildo because the use of dildos are illegal there (not that I would bring a dildo anywhere else or that I even own one for that matter).

Wow The Dildo Argument!!......good thing were staying on topic here.....