Can The PS3 Save SONY?

by the time the PS4 comes out a blue ray reading head will be much smaller and cheap as chips anyway. any more advanced tech will be backwards compatible with it and HD-DVD aswell probably. you should think of this more in terms of the DVD rw +r -r battle.

people act like dvd was already established when the PS2 came out. the PS2 gave millions more people the option of buying DVDs. which helped DVD to become the fastest penetrating video format of all time. i know loads of people who's first dvd player was a PS2.

now people could be thinking this battle will be more like SACD vs DVD-A where no one really cared. but i think that was more down to the general hearing ability of the population. aswell as the speakers in most peoples houses. and that people had in car CD players they still wanted to use. hence the rise of the mp3. the push for HD is across tv, games and recorded media. so it's not just some side issue. and the difference in quality is far more easily aparent when viewed, than it was when heard.
 
To those that say ps3 isn't "taxing" gamers for bluray because ps3 isn't primarily a games machine I have one thing to say: If ps3 isn't primarily a games machine perhaps we shouldn't expect it to sell like one. (afterall it certainly isn't priced as such.)
I don't know anyone who's made that argument. I've made similar, but to be specific I have said that
  • the PS3 is potentially aimed at a different market to just console and thus can be priced on a different model
  • a BRD "Tax" doesn't exist because no-one's forcing you to pay for it. It's a cost of one of the system's features that affects the overall price and capabilities of the machine, and which consumers are free to choose whether they feel it's worth paying for or not. A tax is a fee levied on top of goods to pay for things unrelated to the goods, such that paying sales tax doesn't get you more features or capabilities on a device than not paying sales tax. Removal of the BRD would have lowered the price and also lost some capabilties.
 
a BRD "Tax" doesn't exist because no-one's forcing you to pay for it. It's a cost of one of the system's features that affects the overall price and capabilities of the machine, and which consumers are free to choose whether they feel it's worth paying for or not. A tax is a fee levied on top of goods to pay for things unrelated to the goods, such that paying sales tax doesn't get you more features or capabilities on a device than not paying sales tax. Removal of the BRD would have lowered the price and also lost some capabilties.

I could see where a Sony loyalist who only wants to play Sony games would feel like its a 'tax' though.
 
Look, this is how I view it:

A new generation console is able to turn out next generation games for a number of reasons:

- more ram
- better cpu
- better graphics
- better sound
- innovative features (such as controllers, online connections, etc.)

This in turn requires
- more storage space (better graphics and sound need to go somewhere)
- more flexible storage space (downloadable stuff)

So we get a BluRay drive (more storage than DVD) and a HDD (to store downloadable content).

This is the normal progression. Looking at history, as Sony also showed at GDC, more storage space for the game data is a natural evolution. If you are going to break it, you better have a good reason.

We can go into these reasons, and I invite everyone to rehash them, because they're just as easily debunked. In the meantime, the logical progression invites a number of side effects.

- since you have to have a higher storage space anyway, why not use one that would also be used for other media? Especially since videogames and movies crossover more and more anyway ...
- since you have a HDD and powerful hardware, why not use them for other things, like media center features, Linux, F@lding at Home, or what-not.

With games having been one of the most demanding part of computing for a long while and driving technological advances, the line between personal computers and consoles have become as blurry as they have ever been, especially as also on the PC, games drive technology also (no coincidence that PC Graphics technology finds its way into consoles).

The clearest thing that distinguishes the two is that the console is a standard hardware configuration.
 
Don't let Reggie hear you say that! ;)

He went with option number five, which you've conveniently left out. But even then, the first four hold for the Wii. Maybe the difference isn't as big as with the other consoles, but there are still improvements in all these areas.
 
He went with option number five, which you've conveniently left out. But even then, the first four hold for the Wii. Maybe the difference isn't as big as with the other consoles, but there are still improvements in all these areas.

Yes but #5 (or the Wii in general) doesn't require:

- more storage space (better graphics and sound need to go somewhere)
- more flexible storage space (downloadable stuff)

Which was the basis for the rest of your post. I was just kidding around anyway, hence the ;)
 
Yes but #5 (or the Wii in general) doesn't require:

- more storage space (better graphics and sound need to go somewhere)

Doesn't the Wii go from 8cm GameCube discs to full DVD for games?

- more flexible storage space (downloadable stuff)

Surely it gets something for storing downloads like old Nintendo games? (the SD memcard, which again, is more flexible storage space vis-a-vis the gamecube memory card)

Kidding aside, maybe I misunderstood something? ;)
 
Doesn't the Wii go from 8cm GameCube discs to full DVD for games?



Surely it gets something for storing downloads like old Nintendo games? (the SD memcard, which again, is more flexible storage space vis-a-vis the gamecube memory card)

Kidding aside, maybe I misunderstood something? ;)

Well i'm not sure the move to DVD or SD is anything but a cost/convenience measures rather than requirements, but good points nonetheless!
 
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watching "Frontline" last night, I'd say that China is going to be putting a big whooping on the TV market for a few years to come. Sony had better diversify even more.
 
Due to its low labor cost and huge talent pool, China is both a threat as well as a source of power for all vendors today. Most companies shift low end manufacturing to China, some invest hi-end research in China (and India), and most importantly it is a huge growth market. Software makers also need to watch out for IP piracy issues. Sony and Microsoft are no different in these regards.

As long as one owns/has access to a captive market, it should do well. The Cell platform, the Blu-ray format, the digital distribution framework all have desirable (from Sony's point of view) economy of scale and lock-in factors anywhere.

Also, the more Sony earns per PS3 dollar investment, the more likely (and faster) they can drop price subsequently.
 
I don't think PS3 has to save Sony. What needs to save them, as the article does point out, is a change in ethos. This seems to be Stringer's understanding, and seems to be part of the reason why PS3 is supposed to be getting loads of fancy goodness.

What we are talking about isn't rocket science. As the article points out (I didn't type all 5 pages btw), change has been attempted before.

[size=-2]The need to replace small competitive teams with large collaborative ones did occur to a few key Sony executives. Toshitada Doi, a legendary engineer, set up a computer science lab in 1998 because he saw the future would require networked devices and large-scale software development. Years later, then-CEO Nobuyuki Idei reorganized Sony into a series of "network companies" and charged a promising lieutenant, Yuki Nozoe, with pulling together random broadband offerings into an all-encompassing networked future. But all this talk of networks was anathema to Sony's entrenched engineering cadre. Today, Doi, Idei, and Nozoe are all gone, victims of their failure to make a difference, swept away in the boardroom coup that in spring 2005 put Howard Stringer, a longtime media exec who'd been heading Sony's US operations, in charge of the company.[/size]

At heart, Sony is a traditional Japanese company: loyal and fiercely nationalistic. To have an outsider (who doesn't speak Japanese) at its helm does not bode well for company morale. :neutral:

Sony execs were at odds before Mr. Stringer and things haven't been hunky-dory since.
 
No, most PS3 fans seem to think blu-ray is a vital part of what makes PS3 stand out from the 360.
And you say otherwise?

I think that'd be wrong myself, because BR is something that makes the PS3 stand out. You can hardly call it anything else really. Wether one agrees it's standing out in a GOOD way, or if it's worth the extra price premium, that's something else. It does make the hardware stand out though!
 
And you say otherwise?

I think that'd be wrong myself, because BR is something that makes the PS3 stand out. You can hardly call it anything else really. Wether one agrees it's standing out in a GOOD way, or if it's worth the extra price premium, that's something else. It does make the hardware stand out though!

To you and me, yes.

To the average Joe casual gamer/every day consumer.... They probably don't even know what Bluray is.
 
I don't know anyone who's made that argument. I've made similar, but to be specific I have said that
  • the PS3 is potentially aimed at a different market to just console and thus can be priced on a different model

I get what you're saying and I agree. So ps3 is potentially aimed for lower sales volume as well as they are pricing themselves above the games console market and below the BR CE market. Also CE's typicaly don't sell in the 10's of millions so perhaps they are targeting sales somewhere in between CE and ps2 sales yes? Esentially aiming for the best selling CE unit ever and a so-so selling console. Anything above this target would be gravy.:p

  • a BRD "Tax" doesn't exist because no-one's forcing you to pay for it. It's a cost of one of the system's features that affects the overall price and capabilities of the machine, and which consumers are free to choose whether they feel it's worth paying for or not. A tax is a fee levied on top of goods to pay for things unrelated to the goods, such that paying sales tax doesn't get you more features or capabilities on a device than not paying sales tax. Removal of the BRD would have lowered the price and also lost some capabilties.

In this line of thought how many of you would complain if xbox720 came bundled with an MS ipod (zune) and they charged an additional $200 over ps4? The portable device would come equiped to play native arcade titles and so one could view it as "essential" to the 720 experience as it extends it beyond the living room and "keeps you connected on the go"tm.


I for one would be pissed because I'm not a fan of portable gaming. Just as I'm not exactly thrilled at the prospect of paying for a BR player that I do not intend to use. :devilish: Until ps3 games show a significant (read $200) improvement over xb360 games and that improvement is directly related to the extended storage space, BR will be a PS gamer tax in my eyes and I would assume most others as well that are not interested in BR movies.


They can still fix this situation but I'm not going to rehash my solution so I'll just keep it to myself and watch the show.:D
 
What we are talking about isn't rocket science. As the article points out (I didn't type all 5 pages btw), change has been attempted before.

[size=-2]The need to replace small competitive teams with large collaborative ones did occur to a few key Sony executives. Toshitada Doi, a legendary engineer, set up a computer science lab in 1998 because he saw the future would require networked devices and large-scale software development. Years later, then-CEO Nobuyuki Idei reorganized Sony into a series of "network companies" and charged a promising lieutenant, Yuki Nozoe, with pulling together random broadband offerings into an all-encompassing networked future. But all this talk of networks was anathema to Sony's entrenched engineering cadre. Today, Doi, Idei, and Nozoe are all gone, victims of their failure to make a difference, swept away in the boardroom coup that in spring 2005 put Howard Stringer, a longtime media exec who'd been heading Sony's US operations, in charge of the company.[/size]

At heart, Sony is a traditional Japanese company: loyal and fiercely nationalistic. To have an outsider (who doesn't speak Japanese) at its helm does not bode well for company morale. :neutral:

Sony execs were at odds before Mr. Stringer and things haven't been hunky-dory since.

After reading these series of quotes, I only have random notes to share.

Can the failures really be attributed to Sony's engineering culture, or is it a failure for multiple groups to work coherently together ? e.g., content vs hardware divisions, software (long term, flexibility, reusable) vs hardware (short term, low cost), marketing vs engineering, etc. etc.

I have seen many cases where a "combined effort" fails because of fundamental differences in these disciplines. Sony's problem may be more acute due to its diversity.

IMHO, the highlighted Sony engineering culture may not be the culprit.

What Sony seems to need most (to rise above others) is a group of multi-disciplinary executives and teams who understands and execute across multiple domains (software + hardware + content) well. If they can master this, they will be formidable. Very few organizations can do that today.

So far, the PS3 represents a rally point for these activities (e.g., BR movies + game). So in that sense, it is part of the change.

As for the problem of compartmentalized development, Sony is definitely not alone. I know Logitech, Creative Technologies and MS have the same problem although they are (or rather everyone is) trying to change that. It arises because of a global market, fiercer competitors, timezone differences and a shortened development cycle.

What's more, one may not force the entire group to align to one effort if the buy-in is not there. Creative Technologies lost an excellent production subsidiary because they tried to force all its units to align behind its "Zen" product family months ago. The fact that Sony divisions are falling behind PS3 should be seen as a big plus.

Reorganization, as mentioned in your quoted article, helps a little but I don't think it is a permanent cure (since things and people change). Plus changes take time to take root and reflect. More importantly, previous attempt that rallies around abstract visions and goals can get derailed/side-tracked easily. With a *concrete* product like PS3 and a timeline, Sony may be more effective this time round, but time will tell.

Japanese organizations have their problems (most famous is the "Employee for life" mentality), US companies suffer from their own fallacies such as the "Manage by Quarterly Reports", "High Labor Cost", etc. In fact, Chinese and European entities all have their own cultural issues, I'm not sure how the article ranks their relative impact :)

So far, the highlighted problems are not unique to Sony (except for the names of the executives). Running a business, large or small, is tough and problematic. The article may do a good job collating Sony's history, but let's not take it for more than what it is.
 
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To the average Joe casual gamer/every day consumer.... They probably don't even know what Bluray is.
Heck, the average joe tends to call ANY console either a 'nintendo' or a 'playstation'.

We were talking about fans though, which makes the situation a little different. :)
 
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