Business Approach Comparison Sony PS4 and Microsoft Xbox

[patsu]

I would just wait for their voice navigation feature to see how far along the team is.

Playroom reminds me of Vita's Welcome Pack.
I am not so interested because so far the trailer doesn't give me any motivation to use PSEye.

For Move specifically, the biggest item in my mind is Sports Champion 3. Followed by LBP (or equivalent). I may not mind a follow-up to the hardcore fighting game (The Fight: Lights out).

 

[Strange]

Also as pointed out by Tap In http://forum.beyond3d.com/showpost.php?p=1778647&postcount=6389 MS has said localisation covers more than just voice.

It's not good releasing in those territories, but releasing and it being a pretty bad experience would be a lot worse.

Look at the initial reveal, their trying to recover from that!

However, voice localization is by far the most time-consuming portion to get right.

If it's the non-voice portions that's causing problems then Microsoft is coming off as ludicrously incapable, and I seriously don't believe that.

 

[Jay]

However, voice localization is by far the most time-consuming portion to get right.

If it's the non-voice portions that's causing problems then Microsoft is coming off as ludicrously incapable, and I seriously don't believe that.

Not saying voice isn't an issue (or even biggest) with localisation, just that localisation also covers other things also.

It's accumulative affect of them all, under the umbrella term.

Maybe without DRM reversal or Kinect, maybe there wouldn't have been any issues.

For me, its just that some people are still 100% sure it's yield issues, etc

 

[blakjedi]

Voice on windows phones is very accurate. Whether used for dictations, dialing, or search. I'm sure the xb1 mechanism is based on all that Bing based search and voice recognition algorithm.

 

[patsu]

It depends on your accent and environment. ^_^

 

[Brad Grenz]

Well, it will be interesting for sure. The Playroom will be included with all PS4s (even those that don't have a PS Eye apparently), and apparently that thing can be expanded - Double Fine seems to be working on that. I also just read that Octodad now supports the Move controller (and there's footage out there to show it, seems to work much better actually). Then there's still the Media Molecule thing coming, and of course various features use the camera (Twitch.TV support was mentioned next to UStream, and the former actually requires a webcam if I understand correctly, and of course various other such streaming features have shown to support the camera). Just Dance 4 should support it too.

Twitch doesn't require a camera. I think Phil Spencer said that to downplay the PS4's price advantage but he's wrong.

 

[Nesh]

Well they get only one chance to make a first impression. They are better off waiting until they can offer the full experience in the markets for which the software isn't up to snuff, rather than release a partially complete machine and get crucified for it the forum of public opinion.

Yeah thats MS explanation, which as I said I dont find it all that satisfying

Going back to my original post. This is a very powerful and expensive console where every sale counts. Especially when considering the huge development costs of the game software.

In all honesty is MS really planning to get all languages in existence right including all their dialects to release a console worldwide? There are a shitload of dialects and languages in the Middle east and Asia alone. Either they compromise and release or they will never release until years have passed to get everything 100% perfect.

And what is this "complete experience"? Are these localized features such a game changer? What are these life changing features? They havent specified. People dont line up for something that was not specified. Yet everyone is bubbling about this "XBOX complete experience". The only thing they showed were voice commands to control your XBOX. Its not why most people want an XBOX. If that doesnt work perfectly the main and important experience that most people really care about is still intact and flawless. That includes multitasking, gaming, seamless transition from one application to the next, cloud support etc. Thats 100% XBOX experience and the voice localization is an extra. It doesnt sound right to keep the consumers waiting for something like that when the rest will work perfect

If its not just the voice commands, what else is in there about the localization that makes it so different from the PS4 and the previous consoles? What are these special features that require a delay?

What about games that will support voice commands? Every developer will be required to implement voice commands in all languages and dialects? Or should people in Greece for example talk Greek during the menu and English during game? I dont see this working uniformly, for a very long time

If the localization is the issue here, in order to get the product right, it sounds more like a waste of time and a pain in the ass than anything. More like a bad business decision or bad management. edit: They use the excuse that other territories represent a small percentage compared to the markets they will release on day one. Thats why they are treated as secondary until they get the localization right. Does it really worth the hassle, money and time, to get special "localization" for these "smaller markets"? Release it and get on with it. Make things "perfect" for them in time.

 

[blakjedi]

Every person that I have encountered who said they either pre-ordered or was looking forward to the X1 wad in fact excited about its voice control and media capabilities. Without exception that has been the case. Kinect is a much bigger deal than the forums are stating.

I'm not saying x1 will outsell its competitors or that voice is the only value proposition. But the nongaming benefits that x1 provides are not to overlooked or underestimated.

 

[Nesh]

Every person that I have encountered who said they either pre-ordered or was looking forward to the X1 wad in fact excited about its voice control and media capabilities. Without exception that has been the case. Kinect is a much bigger deal than the forums are stating.

I'm not saying x1 will outsell its competitors or that voice is the only value proposition. But the nongaming benefits that x1 provides are not to overlooked or underestimated.

I doubt your sample is representative. And even if it is, the feature still sounds like a planning problem causer

Can you specify what are these non-gaming benefits that are related to localization except from voice commands? edit: because as I see it, these non gaming benefits are there regardless of localization

 

[joker454]

Release it and get on with it. Make things "perfect" for them in time.

I don't personally think that's a good idea. We saw last gen how one of the combatants suffered by going with that piecemeal approach, and how Nintendo is suffering for it with the Wii U right now. Further, while some can tolerate incomplete software support I don't think that would work for voice recognition. It has to work reliably a large percentage of the time otherwise people won't use it at all and it will become much maligned everywhere and/or branded a failure. I mean it's not like poor online support that gamers tolerate because in the end they can still get online, or poor party support because gamers can use their cell phones instead to get a makeshift party solution working, etc, with voice it either works or it doesn't, there isn't really any middle ground. Finally I'd say the target audience of voice related features are less accepting of poor software support than some other audiences are. Either way, to me shipping with that part of the software incomplete is a really bad idea, and to a certain extent kind of defeats the purpose of the box.

 

[-tkf-]

Every person that I have encountered who said they either pre-ordered or was looking forward to the X1 wad in fact excited about its voice control and media capabilities. Without exception that has been the case. Kinect is a much bigger deal than the forums are stating.

I'm not saying x1 will outsell its competitors or that voice is the only value proposition. But the nongaming benefits that x1 provides are not to overlooked or underestimated.

It's those features i personally look forward to try, but it's also the biggest difference between a ps4 and the xb1 so I don't consider that to be surprising

The question is will it work so good it's considered a benefit or is it just a fun feature that gets in the way on day 2. As a Startrek fan i hope not.

I think joker has a point, it really has to convince when it's turned on.

 

[Arwin]

Every person that I have encountered who said they either pre-ordered or was looking forward to the X1 wad in fact excited about its voice control and media capabilities. Without exception that has been the case. Kinect is a much bigger deal than the forums are stating.

I'm not saying x1 will outsell its competitors or that voice is the only value proposition. But the nongaming benefits that x1 provides are not to overlooked or underestimated.

Same here, but that is one out of eight, where the rest will go PS4. The only currently perceived benefit of the X1 are its media capabilities, and the PS4 is considered superior in all other aspects, price, performance and first party games. Personally I like Kinect, but have to see it in practice (Kinect 1.0 doesn't work in my living room, and my office is even smaller) and how well they support Apps and such before I will consider spending that much money. However ...

Well they get only one chance to make a first impression. They are better off waiting until they can offer the full experience in the markets for which the software isn't up to snuff, rather than release a partially complete machine and get crucified for it the forum of public opinion.

But not releasing also doesn't leave a good impression. Worse if you first announced that you would. And especially if the early adopter crowd may not care as much for those media features to begin with.

 

[joker454]

But not releasing also doesn't leave a good impression. Worse if you first announced that you would. And especially if the early adopter crowd may not care as much for those media features to begin with.

The early adopter crowd that planned to buy it at launch will probably buy it anyways even if it's delayed, they are already a lock. Given the plethora of people worldwide chomping at the bit to write the first 'Kinect is a failure' type articles, I'd say delays are the wiser choice. If Kinect fails at voice recognition in even one region on the planet, it will very quickly become Internet Fact (tm) that Kinect 2.0 voice control doesn't work anywhere at any time. Then they will have to switch to damage control all over again. If this was Apple I'd agree to just ship it, because Apple can get away with Map apps that don't map correctly, Phones that can't make calls when held, etc. But for Microsoft delaying release is the much safer move.

 

[Arwin]

Dunno. Trust that we are pretty used to certain features not being released immediately or even at all. If I want Siri, I need to set my phone to English. We don't have the Sony video store. A handful of movies in MS' Video Store are subtitled. IGC and PS Mobile haven't made it here (and IGC now clearly never will, but the new Apps might). We're getting a (severely cut back) version of Netflix for the first time later this month. Etc etc etc

 

[Nesh]

I don't personally think that's a good idea. We saw last gen how one of the combatants suffered by going with that piecemeal approach, and how Nintendo is suffering for it with the Wii U right now. Further, while some can tolerate incomplete software support I don't think that would work for voice recognition. It has to work reliably a large percentage of the time otherwise people won't use it at all and it will become much maligned everywhere and/or branded a failure. I mean it's not like poor online support that gamers tolerate because in the end they can still get online, or poor party support because gamers can use their cell phones instead to get a makeshift party solution working, etc, with voice it either works or it doesn't, there isn't really any middle ground. Finally I'd say the target audience of voice related features are less accepting of poor software support than some other audiences are. Either way, to me shipping with that part of the software incomplete is a really bad idea, and to a certain extent kind of defeats the purpose of the box.

But you have touched none of my points. You grasped that one sentence and repeated your previous post in different words.

 

[AlphaWolf]

But you have touched none of my points. You grasped that one sentence and repeated your previous post in different words.

You're assuming they won't still sell every console they can make in the launch window. Every sale does count, but they don't all count equally.

 

[DJ12]

The early adopter crowd that planned to buy it at launch will probably buy it anyways even if it's delayed, they are already a lock. Given the plethora of people worldwide chomping at the bit to write the first 'Kinect is a failure' type articles, I'd say delays are the wiser choice. If Kinect fails at voice recognition in even one region on the planet, it will very quickly become Internet Fact (tm) that Kinect 2.0 voice control doesn't work anywhere at any time. Then they will have to switch to damage control all over again. If this was Apple I'd agree to just ship it, because Apple can get away with Map apps that don't map correctly, Phones that can't make calls when held, etc. But for Microsoft delaying release is the much safer move.

Not true. I have been a PlayStation guy since day one yet when the ps3 was delayed guess what I did?

Bought a 360 core (only one I could find at the time) then a premium and 10 games. All before the ps3 was released.

In your utopia Xbox fan world people will wait for it, but in reality with such a big difference between the two console many will just get the other console.

 

[brasnial]

I agree with joker here neither Sony or Microsoft can afford one machines ease of use out stripping the other .

Tablets modern phones they all sell on being of a reasonable standard at many different things .
Which ever one of these two machines works best as the jack of all trades will in my opinion be the number one choice with the public .

Something so far going by Microsoft's messaging they seem to understand ..your average family want something that works for the whole family .
Most gamers have grown up have there own family .....there's a market there for fitness dance games for mum and daughter .....as well as fun kiddy games using motion controls think kinectables or book of spells as well as the fps and racing games for father and son .

The TV internet connecting to other devices in the house like phones and tablets are all aimed at making a jack of all trades device much like a PC but just one click to get started .

In my opinion Microsoft are looking to this market does it exist yes can they entice them in only time will tell as for Sony they seem to be more interested in the hardcore one gamer in there room market .

Which they have so far successfully courted hence the high number of pre orders will this drive sales into the family market only time will tell .

The last machine to capture the family market the wii broke sale records so as a business man I no which market i'd chace

 

[Shifty Geezer]

Well, it will be interesting for sure. The Playroom will be included with all PS4s (even those that don't have a PS Eye apparently), and apparently that thing can be expanded - Double Fine seems to be working on that. I also just read that Octodad now supports the Move controller (and there's footage out there to show it, seems to work much better actually). Then there's still the Media Molecule thing coming, and of course various features use the camera (Twitch.TV support was mentioned next to UStream, and the former actually requires a webcam if I understand correctly, and of course various other such streaming features have shown to support the camera). Just Dance 4 should support it too.

Only JD4 would benefit from a stereoscopic camera if it does Kinect-style body tracking. The rest can use the existing PSEye. Sony haven't made any case for buying another camera. That said, supposedly they'll talk more on late November, after the thing has launched.* Maybe they're running behind schedule, and new management is not going with the promissory marketing messages of old, instead only showing working content?

* Edit: I got that wrong. They'll talk about features in the run up to release on November 29th.

 

[Nesh]

You're assuming they won't still sell every console they can make in the launch window. Every sale does count, but they don't all count equally.

I didnt really get your point and what does this have to do with my points.