Business Approach Comparison Sony PS4 and Microsoft Xbox

[-tkf-]

Hooray for PS3 winning the lead Netflix platform.

I didn't know it was 1 year behind in time, makes it much more clear how big a wall Gold really is. From nothing to leader in such a short time can only be because Sony gives access to stuff like netflix and leaves the pay wall down.

With that history lesson from you i think it's even more clear that the out of the box no pay wall services matters.

 

[AzBat]

I didn't know it was 1 year behind in time, makes it much more clear how big a wall Gold really is. From nothing to leader in such a short time can only be because Sony gives access to stuff like netflix and leaves the pay wall down.

With that history lesson from you i think it's even more clear that the out of the box no pay wall services matters.

Microsoft had a 1 year exclusive. I agree that no paywall definitely contributed to the PS3 being the leader, but I also think you have to remember that the PS3 was also bought specifically by a large number of users for it being a Bluray player too. So I think there are a number of reasons why it is the most used Netflix device. But in the end I doubt MS cares since they're making money off every Netflix or VOD user. Just look at it as a royalty for the service, similar to how Sony makes a royalty off every Bluray player sold. Just a different way of charging for the service. Someone somehow is going to pay for the service, nothing is truly free.

Tommy McClain

 

[ERP]

It would be interesting to know how far behind in netflix usage MS is given that the feature is behind the pay wall.
FWIW I believe that MS wrote the Xbox Netflix app, and Netflix wrote the PS3 one. And I've been told that Netflix prefer providing the app because they can control their own branding.

Netflix is by far the most used PS3 app, followed by YouTube, no game is even close.

 

[zupallinere]

It would be interesting to know how far behind in netflix usage MS is given that the feature is behind the pay wall.
FWIW I believe that MS wrote the Xbox Netflix app, and Netflix wrote the PS3 one. And I've been told that Netflix prefer providing the app because they can control their own branding.

Netflix is by far the most used PS3 app, followed by YouTube, no game is even close.

Jeez you tube on the PS3 kinda sucked for quite a while and still #2.

 

[-tkf-]

Microsoft had a 1 year exclusive. I agree that no paywall definitely contributed to the PS3 being the leader, but I also think you have to remember that the PS3 was also bought specifically by a large number of users for it being a Bluray player too. So I think there are a number of reasons why it is the most used Netflix device. But in the end I doubt MS cares since they're making money off every Netflix or VOD user. Just look at it as a royalty for the service, similar to how Sony makes a royalty off every Bluray player sold. Just a different way of charging for the service. Someone somehow is going to pay for the service, nothing is truly free.

Tommy McClain

It's funny how the "many PS3's acting as a blu-ray player" is suddenly a factor in lots of things when other discussions complete and utterly denied that the bluray drive sold any ps3 or helped the Blu-Ray market in anyway.

In the who is netflix king debate please remember that outside the USA, the strongest market for the 360, netflix is neither as good and as widespread.

Just more points to the extra value out of the box.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

Netflix is by far the most used PS3 app, followed by YouTube, no game is even close.

YT is a ghastly mess on PS3! It's also worth noting that BBC iPlayer is most watched on PS3's - clearly the console connected to the TV is the preferred place to access media portals. All that behind a paywall is going to have to detract from the appeal of a console for those suitably informed. Sony putting only online gaming behind the paywall is a considerably different business proposition. Sony are sacrificing revenue on the most popular activities in favour of popularity, I guess.

 

[-tkf-]

YT is a ghastly mess on PS3!

Yep! the feature that lets you control it from another device helped though..

http://www.engadget.com/2012/08/14/youtube-playstation-3/

And deleting the settings after it was updated fixed the startup crash

 

[Brad Grenz]

Making an Xbox 360 app isn't exactly a tutorial you can find on YouTube or in a book. Microsoft has dev support which developers can access to get help.

So does Sony, so does Roku, so does Apple, so does Google. What does that have to do with anything?

I didn't know it was 1 year behind in time, makes it much more clear how big a wall Gold really is. From nothing to leader in such a short time can only be because Sony gives access to stuff like netflix and leaves the pay wall down.

With that history lesson from you i think it's even more clear that the out of the box no pay wall services matters.

Netflix started sending out free disc-based streaming apps for both PS3 and Wii around 6 months after the 360 got the app as an end around the exclusivity.

It would be interesting to know how far behind in netflix usage MS is given that the feature is behind the pay wall.
FWIW I believe that MS wrote the Xbox Netflix app, and Netflix wrote the PS3 one. And I've been told that Netflix prefer providing the app because they can control their own branding.

That may have been true of the original Netflix app, but when everyone hated the redesigned interface Microsoft was quick to point out they didn't make it.

 

[Deleted member 11852]

Sony are sacrificing revenue on the most popular activities in favour of popularity, I guess.

To me it looks like Sony are charging only for services that actively run on their server infrastructure. Features and services that aren't costing Sony to provide long term appear to be free, e.g. Netflix and video uploads to ustream.

Seems pretty reasonable.

 

[ERP]

To me it looks like Sony are charging only for services that actively run on their server infrastructure. Features and services that aren't costing Sony to provide long term appear to be free, e.g. Netflix and video uploads to ustream.

Seems pretty reasonable.

I think it's more they want the minimum set of things behind the pay wall such that most people will still pay the $5 or so a month for plus, or whatever the new name is.
Everything MS puts behind Gold that Sony doesn't is positive press, as long as those items are not the driving factor in Gold or Plus adoption, Sony doesn't care.
If MS has significantly higher adoption of Gold vs Plus again, I could see the policy changing, but probably not until PS5.

 

[Brimstone]

Netflix is by far the most used PS3 app, followed by YouTube, no game is even close.

That is distorted way of looking at it. A single game versus a massive library of movies & TV shows.

If Gamestop and used game sales are what many console owners are engaged in, that would inflate the relevance of net flix. Joe Six-pack buys a game then 2 weeks latter trades it in and repeats this cycle Net Flix looks better even though it isn't true. Also you can download stuff from Net Flix correct? If so I can see that further distorting things...Joe Six-Pack wants to watch James Bond so he leaves his console on overnight and while at work to download it then they repeat this cycle all year long. If that counts as usuage a consummer walking inside a Gamestop should count for something.

 

[bkilian]

It would be interesting to know how far behind in netflix usage MS is given that the feature is behind the pay wall.
FWIW I believe that MS wrote the Xbox Netflix app, and Netflix wrote the PS3 one. And I've been told that Netflix prefer providing the app because they can control their own branding.

Netflix is by far the most used PS3 app, followed by YouTube, no game is even close.

MS wrote the first Netflix app. The current one was written by Netflix. I entered a ton of bugs against it when they were testing it internally, and they closed most of them as "by design". I see the single press add/remove from queue has come back though, that was my biggest gripe about their redesign, along with the lame-ass slow UI. I currently prefer the Apple TV Netflix app because you can see about twenty shows at a time, and scrolling through is a lot faster.

I generated a long, acrimonious email thread about their instant play stuff too, but they still haven't fixed that.

 

[bkilian]

That is distorted way of looking at it. A single game versus a massive library of movies & TV shows.

If Gamestop and used game sales are what many console owners are engaged in, that would inflate the relevance of net flix. Joe Six-pack buys a game then 2 weeks latter trades it in and repeats this cycle Net Flix looks better even though it isn't true. Also you can download stuff from Net Flix correct?

No, Netflix is streaming only. On the 360, if I remember correctly, Netflix usage is close to equalling all online game-playing hours added together, not just a single game. If you include the other entertainment apps, they easily exceed the number of gaming hours on Live.

 

[DrJay24]

YT is a ghastly mess on PS3!

No it's not, when was the last time you tried it?

 

[specwarGP2]

To me it looks like Sony are charging only for services that actively run on their server infrastructure. Features and services that aren't costing Sony to provide long term appear to be free, e.g. Netflix and video uploads to ustream.

Seems pretty reasonable.

Plus doesn't need to lock stuff behind a paywall because it's a game subscription/rental service. That by itself gives it value.

Gold needs to lock stuff behind a paywall to give it the illusion of having value.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

No it's not, when was the last time you tried it?

When they released the official app last year (in Europe) or whenever it was. Okay, I used excessive adjectives, and it's in reality only quite bad. The interface isn't at all as good as every other device that accesses YT IMO. The arrangement of content and ease of finding stuff is considerably inferior to a PC or tablet.

 

[temesgen]

Why would I care who makes the apps? They are providing me a service that I feel is worth paying for. There is no eating the cost. I'm sorry you believe it's a "skeezy" business practice, but it's their platform & they believe they offer a better value such that they can charge for it. It's worked out great so far for them. I never thought Xbox One would change that practice. It's called competition & until people stop paying for Gold they will continue to do it. Nothing "skeezy" about that, just business. They're not doing it for charity.

Tommy McClain

I don't follow this line of reasoning, Brad said that the third party developed the app which suggest they paid for it not MS or Sony. There is no reason why your XB1/PS4 needs to route thru Live/PSN to stream content.

If my PC forced me to content to MS's servers to reach content and tried to charge me additional fees beyond the cost of the hardware and software I wouldn't tolerate it. And I am pretty sure most consumers would have the same reaction. Is there a monthly fee to access Netflix on Apple TV or Roku? Do you pay an additional fee to Apple or Google to use Netflix on your tablet or phone?

Why so many people defend this so passionately is hard for me to understand. Hiding access to the internet behind a paywall is simply a way for them to force consumers to pay a service fee twice. IMO the person who actually provides the service is due compensation but I don't want to pay MS or anyone else for services they aren't providing. If this sort of thing catches on Comcast might start charging to allow you to access Netflix or Hulu in addition to your internet access and I doubt those who are on these forums defending the practice see it as a good thing then.

 

[temesgen]

When they released the official app last year (in Europe) or whenever it was. Okay, I used excessive adjectives, and it's in reality only quite bad. The interface isn't at all as good as every other device that accesses YT IMO. The arrangement of content and ease of finding stuff is considerably inferior to a PC or tablet.

The service is better but I agree its hard to use without a keyboard or touch input. I think its possible that the touch pad on PS4 or Kinect might help but for now the jury's still out on both of these UIs...

 

[Brimstone]

No, Netflix is streaming only. On the 360, if I remember correctly, Netflix usage is close to equalling all online game-playing hours added together, not just a single game. If you include the other entertainment apps, they easily exceed the number of gaming hours on Live.

If a person wants to watch a movie stream at 1080p full quality from Net Flix that requires a monster amount of bandwidth. The highest quality tier (any quality tier actually) can be cached onto the console I think...just leave the console on with Net Flix open and data will cache. If this is the case then Net Flix data is warped and distorted. Caching movie data isn't the same as activley watching a show or playing a game.

I don't follow Net Flix closely though so I could be easily wrong.

 

[Deleted member 11852]

To me it looks like Sony are charging only for services that actively run on their server infrastructure. Features and services that aren't costing Sony to provide long term appear to be free, e.g. Netflix and video uploads to ustream.

I think it's more they want the minimum set of things behind the pay wall such that most people will still pay the $5 or so a month for plus, or whatever the new name is.

I don't quite follow the logic here. Sony want as few services behind Plus as possible so people subscribe to it? Generally you want to offer more as an incentive, but like I said above, I think Sony have decided to only put things behind the paywall that costs them to run. And they probably feel that their existing Plus offerings - at least what we've seen with PS3 and Vita - are more than enough.

Everything MS puts behind Gold that Sony doesn't is positive press, as long as those items are not the driving factor in Gold or Plus adoption, Sony doesn't care.

True, but I think it may be less about differentiation between Sony's box and Microsoft's box and fundamentally just a difference of monetization strategies between the two companies. Microsoft have again gone for a custom HDD, Sony have again gone for a standard user-upgradable HDD when the could have gone for a custom option and made some money selling bigger HDD options - that's three Sony consoles in a row that have utilised standard HDD parts.

I think Sony are just in a different place about what they think the consumer should be paying for. Maybe it's a cultural thing, I don't know.

If MS has significantly higher adoption of Gold vs Plus again, I could see the policy changing, but probably not until PS5.

Maybe. Maybe not. They've passed by monetization options before. They're not idiots, so it's obviously not simply a case of opportunity - or not.