Build or buy, desktop/laptop help me out please!!

[Michael Blaszkiewicz]

Hi everyone, I desperately need your help in a life or death situation. Well not really. I just need a new computer and need some help. Currently I've got a Pentium 4 2.8ghz, 32 bit processor, 80 gig 5200rpm hard drive, Radeon 9200 series 128mb video card, and 1024mb of RAM. Now I think a computer like this has quickly become ancient so I definitely need to replace it. I was thinking of just going all out on a laptop as I am going to university, but I've recently made the decision to just buy a crappy 6-7 hundred dollar laptop with like 4 hours battery life to act as a typewriter basically. My dillema is, do I buy a desktop or build one myself, as I'd like to obtain this masterpiece by the end of August. I've been looking around and it seems like the best deal is through Alienware, but I'm sure you guys could give me better suggestions. So my question is, what do I do? Where do I buy from? Am I doing the right thing?

My specifications for the computer I want are as follows; Core 2 Duo e6600 or e6700, 2gigs of ram, at the least 100gig 7200rpm hard drive, 7900 gtx (512mb) or (preferably) 7950 gx2 (1gig) video card, dual layer dvd burner, a quiet but powerful case and power supply that won't overheat and stays pretty cool while not being too loud. A monitor is not required, I can get a 17 inch lcd for 99 bucks. Thanks guys!!

 

[Malo]

It's up to you. I'm personally more partial to frankensteins as I like to build my own the way I want it. However if you don't have the knowledge, the impetus or the time then i'd suggest getting a pre-built.

 

[digitalwanderer]

Build, it's the only way to go.

Although as Kalbaz said, if you don't know how to build one you may be better off buying a prebuilt.

Alienware don't suck at all from what I've heard, but I could build the same PC they sell you for a lot cheaper.

 

[Michael Blaszkiewicz]

Their offering core 2 duo e6700, 1 gig of ram, 650 watt power supply, 250gig 7200rpm hard drive, 16x dual layer dvd burner, 52x cd drive, GeForce 7950 gx2 video card, for $2279 (American). What do you think, buy it, I can build it as well, I have nothing to do for a month. Any suggestions of places for a cheaper price?

 

[SugarCoat]

100-case
100-psu
170-motherboard
200-gig DDR2 800
600-e6700 processor
600-7950gx2
100-HDD
40-dvd burner
80-100 for new OS

~2000-2100 after shipping.

Thats my rough guess as to what it would cost to order all the parts seperatly for a comperable pc. Things like the e6700 are out of stock in most places still since its brand new, so that might play hell with your timeline. But if you could manage to find one i'd problably go with the e6600 and save a few hundred. That goes for OEMs as well, unless you really want to burn money.

 

[Michael Blaszkiewicz]

So basically what you are saying is that it would cost me relatively the same amount of money to order this monster than too build it, roughly 1-2 hundred dollars difference?

 

[Michael Blaszkiewicz]

If you were me would you buy this computer? I need to have a computer by september.

 

[SugarCoat]

I would problably just go with the Alienware or Dell or what ever you picked that was $2300ish. You could save some money by building it yourself, few hundred, but like i said, the processor is something you may be taking a real chance on since they're out of stock everywhere and in high demand.

If you're a 'normal' college student you'll want to set aside some fun money for beer and food, maybe a vacation etc.. anyway so, unless its not your money, like a gift from mom/dad, i'd problably downgrade the processor as well to the e6600 and pocket the $300 you save.

 

[Skrying]

I'd really recommend buying it, it'll just be much easier for you if you have issues. Down time will be less, etc.

 

[Michael Blaszkiewicz]

Yah, I think I might buy it, I agree with the fact that I should step down my processor, the only problem is that every company that offers that processor has a higher price, in the range of $2500 but for the e6600 and the 7900gtx or x1900xtx where as this is the e6700 with a 7950 gx2 which I think is better. For some reason even on Alienware, the different system with the e6600 processors costs more with a x1900 xtx because they say it require more power, an 850 watt power supply. So screw that. I also have another question, there seems to be alot of talk of physics cards lately, now, if I buy this new desktop with the 7950 gx2 could I use my old card as a physics card?

 

[Skrying]

Yah, I think I might buy it, I agree with the fact that I should step down my processor, the only problem is that every company that offers that processor has a higher price, in the range of $2500 but for the e6600 and the 7900gtx or x1900xtx where as this is the e6700 with a 7950 gx2 which I think is better. For some reason even on Alienware, the different system with the e6600 processors costs more with a x1900 xtx because they say it require more power, an 850 watt power supply. So screw that. I also have another question, there seems to be alot of talk of physics cards lately, now, if I buy this new desktop with the 7950 gx2 could I use my old card as a physics card?

No, for a graphics card to even start thinking about being a "physics" card it has to support SM3.0, which your old card does not and also your old card would probably make the physics slower, lol.

 

[Michael Blaszkiewicz]

Yah I think I've decided to take a look at building it, if not, screw it I'll spend the 2300.

 

[L233]

You can go cheaper than $2100 without compromising too much. With a few modifications to SugarCoat's recommendations you can get away with $1500-1600.

1. Don't buy an E6700 Conroe... the E6600 is $200 less and the performance difference is miniscule.
2. You don't need DDR2-800 RAM. Conroe has an FSB of 533 MHz and it barely reacts to higher bandwidth and faster timings. The best bang for the buck would prolly be 2GB of DDR-667 CL4 RAM, which btw. goes nicely with the E6600. Just set the FSB and RAM to operate and 667 MHz and you you have overlocked your CPU to 3.0 GHz, which is probably very achievable with an E6600 and decent air cooling. That's another $50 off the $2100.
3. Western Digital WD2500YD hard drive... 250GB for $80.
4. Video card... personally, I'd wait til end of August and get a X1950XTX for $400.
5. $200 for case and PSU? Maybe if you're fully intend on running high-end SLI or Crossfire... but if you don't there are good alternatives for half that price.


I recently bought the Antec Sonata II, which is a nice case if you don't need much space and it comes with a very quiet 450W PSU (Antec SmartPower). The PSU (which retails for $70) makes the price of $90-100 extremely attractive.

The case has a few things going for it:
- it looks very nice
- the hard discs are mounted on rubber thingies which decouple the drives from the case. It's not particularly effective but far better than nothing
- you can mount two 120mm case fans
- the hard disc drive bays are rotated by 90° for easy accessability
- comes with a good PSU
- high quality, there are virtually no sharp edges
- it has no openings or fan mounts in the side panels, which means you can actually achive an effective airflow in the case

There are some drawbacks though:
- the sheet metal they used is pretty thin, which means the case is really crappy at dampening noise. That makes quiet coolers for the CPU and the video card a must.
- the case is very small, which makes cable management a nightmare. There's not a whole hell of a lot of room in there but it's sufficient for most regular systems.
- the cables of the PSU are rather short so if your ATX power connector on the mainboard is located on the left hand site, the ATX power cable might interfere with your CPU cooler and even make it impossible to connect the ATX cable.
- if the CPU socket is located too close to the upper edge of the mainboard you might run into trouble with some of the big air coolers
- no removable mainboard tray
- right side panel cannot be removed

My mainboard (Asus P5W DH) has an almost perfect layout, so I didn't run into any problems. I like to case a lot so far and I'm actually happy that I got away without spending an arm and a leg on a decent case and PSU combo.

 

[Skrying]

That case would so pwn if the front was not so ugly. Its cheap, comes with a decent PSU and its got good airflow for its size. But that front.

Anyway, I recommend what L233 said fully.

 

[L233]

The front actually doesn't look all that bad, the flash light on my camera kinda makes it look uglier than it is.

Here's a better picture:

That's the Sonata I btw... the Sonata II doesn't have the ugly ANTEC inscription on the side panel.

 

[Pete]

I'd build my own system to save a bit of money but mostly to control noise. If you've got more money than time, though, buying prebuilt may be worth it.

Case doors really annoy me. I'd prefer stealthed slots. Something like Antec's P150, tho I have no experience with it (its PSU may be incompatible with some MBs, per SPCR's review). You can see from both links that there're white and black versions.

I even find the NSK2400 interesting if you have room on your desk and will place your LCD on it, but not for SLI (it's microATX).

Otherwise, I'm with L233 and SugarCoat, though I'd consider budgeting an extra $20-80 for quieter fans and a super-efficient CPU heatsink if you're concerned with noise. Heck, if this system is mainly for gaming and considering the relative rush, I'd even suggest getting the cheapest Core 2 Duo available (key word, as apparently everything is sold out except for the top and bottom ends) and something like a 7900GT, holding onto those until you can upgrade to a G80 or R600, and only then upgrading to a faster Core 2 Duo. Not sure how much you'd save on a 6600 waiting 'til January, though, so you might just want to go with a 6600 from the start.

Yeah, a $550 7950 can really kick a $350 X1900's tail in some games, but in others (like Oblivion) it doesn't seem to justify its price premium. And even a 7900GT may be acceptable at 12x10 for the next 3-6 months. Unless you want to play mostly those games the 7950 cleans up with at max IQ settings, I'd make do with a piddling $250 7900GT or even $350 X1900XT until G80 drops in a few months (Oct-Nov?).

As for Alienware's sytem, I'm confused as to why you'd need a 650W, let alone an 850W, PSU with a Core 2 system. If you'll SLI in the future, yeah, a true 650W unit sounds safe if a bit overkill, but 850W sounds ridiculous for a Core 2 system. The Core 2 Duo reviews all showed less than 200W power draw with a 7900GTX under CPU load. That should jump 70W to ~250W when gaming with a X1900XTX, but you're still well below 650W, and comfortably within the bounds of Antec's stock 430-450W PSUs. You'll want some headroom for G80 and R600, but there's a lot of headroom b/w 250 and 430W.

But if you go with Alienware, they seem to be throwing in a 7950GX2L (dunno what the "L" is for; the specs seem to be stock) for the price of a 7900GTX on the Area-51 7500. It's $1872 with an E6400 and 7950GX2, minus the monitor, with just a 1-yr warranty (building your own system may mean longer warranties on key parts like the CPU, MB, and GPU, and obviously most RAM is lifetime).

 

[poopypoo]

Just thought i'd chime in here... one thing I think you're missing, in some ways, with building a PC of this stature is the advantages to DIY. This is a very nice PC you're looking at, and I can't blame you for wanting it, but -- you're paying a $1000 or more premium for what in the end comes down to a 5-20% boost in framerates in certain games. Not to say the 7950 doesn't really thrash some games -- but in the games where you're going to really be suffering, performancewise, it's not going to make that much difference over an x1900.

As mentioned before, if this is all on mom & dad money, then it's moot -- but if not, or if you love your parents, the real place DIY shines is in the budget categories. you get yourself the cheapest processor in the socket you want, or at least the cpu with the least diminished returns. I.e., the cheapest conroe, or an X2 in the 3800+ range, or an a64 in the 3200+ range (iirc, it's been a little since i peeked at anand's buying guide - VERY helpful). anyway, keep your RAM cheapish and and your video card just shy of XTREME, and you should be able to keep this puppy under $1000.

It may sound like a big step down, but the greatest use of your newfound skills isn't in building the most expensive PC known to man. it's the knowledge and security that comes from knowing that you can make adjustments as time goes by -- without paying labor fees or getting ripped off in general. A year from now, G80 and R600 are old hat, and you can't resist getting 478x AAA + X-HDR in the new Yakiniku Hunter VII? no problem, buy it. slap it in, and it's another $300 added to the cost of your PC... roughly what you saved by not buying a 7950 GX2 today. PLUS, you have another hotbat video card to a) use in another PC (very popular option for those of use with wives/girlfriends!) or b) sell on ebay.

anyway, good luck, i suspect you'll enjoy whatever you get.

 

[Michael Blaszkiewicz]

Thanks alot guys, yah I'm going to check out how much it's going to cost be to build this behemouth by myself, but if I can't do it before early september because of back orders or sold out processors I'll just go with alienware.

 

[poopypoo]

...forgot to mention the Pentium D 805 -- someone recommended this to me as the best way to hedge your bets before conroe is really here and reasonably priced (i don't buy ANY processors over $200 -- usually more like $100). Get yourself a mobo that will do conroes later, and slap this PD 805 in and overclock the hell out of it. Apparently it'll do 4GHz on air -- that's the other benefit to DIY! ;D

 

[Skrying]

...forgot to mention the Pentium D 805 -- someone recommended this to me as the best way to hedge your bets before conroe is really here and reasonably priced (i don't buy ANY processors over $200 -- usually more like $100). Get yourself a mobo that will do conroes later, and slap this PD 805 in and overclock the hell out of it. Apparently it'll do 4GHz on air -- that's the other benefit to DIY! ;D

4Ghz on air? Maybe a few select chips. I've had several grab it (and made sure they got a Conroe mobo with it, great upgrade path there) and the highest on stock air is 3.5Ghz and the highest with aftermarket (Zalman 9500) was 3.7Ghz.

It might do 4Ghz on air, but it'd have to be really good air and a good chip.