British Scientist to End World on Wednesday

[arjan de lumens]

my bet - they won't find it - again, so a new larger "collider" will be started

As I understand it, the Standard Model - which gives us the theoretical basis for expecting a Higgs boson in the first place - does put an upper limit on how heavy the Higgs boson can be (~1 TeV); the LHC is apparently powerful enough to do testing all the way up to that limit, so if it doesn't actually find the Higgs boson, it will actually be refuting the Standard Model.

Of course, in such a situation, there will be a dire need to come up with - and test - alternatives to the Standard Model. Which we're presumably going to need a larger collider to do.

 

[Albuquerque]

As I understand it, the Standard Model - which gives us the theoretical basis for expecting a Higgs boson in the first place - does put an upper limit on how heavy the Higgs boson can be (~1 TeV); the LHC is apparently powerful enough to do testing all the way up to that limit, so if it doesn't actually find the Higgs boson, it will actually be refuting the Standard Model.

If I recall correctly,the upper stated limit on the LHC is ~9TeV as they have tests planned in late 2010 for SuperSymmetry particles at that mass.

 

[RudeCurve]

Er, first of all, anti-matter is old hat. That was discovered a long time ago.

I wasn't aware of that but the point is that it is an example of what I consider a revolutionary find because:

Since the energy density is vastly higher than these other forms, the thrust to weight equation used in antimatter rocketry and spacecraft would be very different. In fact, the energy in a few grams of antimatter is enough to transport an unmanned spacecraft to Mars in a few minutes. In comparison, the Mars Global Surveyor took eleven months to reach Mars using conventional means. It is hoped that antimatter could be used as fuel for interplanetary travel or possibly interstellar travel, but it is also feared that, as a side-effect of antimatter propulsion, the design of antimatter weapons might become an equal reality.

If this happens, then the LHC may allow us to discovery an entirely new theory of physics. That would be revolutionary.

Yes that would be revolutionary.

 

[KimB]

I wasn't aware of that but the point is that it is an example of what I consider a revolutionary find because:

Since the energy density is vastly higher than these other forms, the thrust to weight equation used in antimatter rocketry and spacecraft would be very different. In fact, the energy in a few grams of antimatter is enough to transport an unmanned spacecraft to Mars in a few minutes. In comparison, the Mars Global Surveyor took eleven months to reach Mars using conventional means. It is hoped that antimatter could be used as fuel for interplanetary travel or possibly interstellar travel, but it is also feared that, as a side-effect of antimatter propulsion, the design of antimatter weapons might become an equal reality.

Well, anti-matter doesn't store energy. It's just a form of matter. What it does do, however, is annihilate with normal matter to produce thermal energy equivalent to the mass energy of the anti-matter and the normal matter it annihilates with.

But I don't think anti-matter will ever prove to be a viable fuel source as it requires continuous input of energy to store. You can't let the anti-matter touch anything or else it'll annihilate with it. This typically means that you have to store the anti-matter as a high-temperature plasma that is electromagnetically confined until you want to use it. All this storage means it's unlikely to be an efficient means of propulsion for transportation, particularly as it requires massive amounts of energy to produce.

 

[RudeCurve]

But I don't think anti-matter will ever prove to be a viable fuel source as it requires continuous input of energy to store. You can't let the anti-matter touch anything or else it'll annihilate with it. This typically means that you have to store the anti-matter as a high-temperature plasma that is electromagnetically confined until you want to use it. All this storage means it's unlikely to be an efficient means of propulsion for transportation, particularly as it requires massive amounts of energy to produce.

Cost and containment issues aside, how much power do you estimate it takes to produce a few grams of AM? Are we talking GigaWatts of power or more? I'm just imagining sometime in the future say the year 2100 where we have a whole area the size of Texas dedicated to powering a super colllider 24/7 to making AM. Or if that's not feasible in the next 100 years what are your thoughts on collecting AM from the Van Allen Belts?

 

[Jack_Tripper]

December 21, 2012 the last day of the Mayan Calender.

Awww dammint - I was really looking forward to the new Duke Nuk'em too!



Jack

 

[pcchen]

Cost and containment issues aside, how much power do you estimate it takes to produce a few grams of AM? Are we talking GigaWatts of power or more? I'm just imagining sometime in the future say the year 2100 where we have a whole area the size of Texas dedicated to powering a super colllider 24/7 to making AM. Or if that's not feasible in the next 100 years what are your thoughts on collecting AM from the Van Allen Belts?

To my understanding, current antimatter production rate is in the order of a few nanograms per year. Milligram is completely out of reach with current technology. According to this page, all antimatter ever created at CERN, if annihilated with matter, can only light a small light bulb for a few minutes.

Furthermore, since it's very difficult to control antimatter's reaction with normal matter, it's not an appropriate way for energy storage.

Antimatter is actually useful for other things. For example, the P in PET is positron, which is antimatter version of electrons. It is widely used in medical applications.

 

[KimB]

Cost and containment issues aside, how much power do you estimate it takes to produce a few grams of AM? Are we talking GigaWatts of power or more? I'm just imagining sometime in the future say the year 2100 where we have a whole area the size of Texas dedicated to powering a super colllider 24/7 to making AM. Or if that's not feasible in the next 100 years what are your thoughts on collecting AM from the Van Allen Belts?

1 gram of anti-matter would, if the production process was perfectly efficient, require around 50 Gigawatt hours of energy. But the production process isn't going to be perfectly efficient. Typically, it's going to be wildly, horribly inefficient. So you can easily multiply that by 10 or 100.

As for the anti-matter in the Van Allen belts, well, there's just not enough of it to use for energy. At best that would be a cheaper means to collect anti-matter for laboratory studies than to just produce it ourselves.

 

[CouldntResist]

The Large Hadron Collider: The End Of The Universe?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fPxYdObyJ2A&NR=1
Don't miss the the ending

 

[emacs]

although cringe worthy in some parts it does present some topics quite nicely http://jp.youtube.com/watch?v=j50ZssEojtM

 

[zed]

looks like we get another 2 months saving grace, repent whilst you can

The Large Hadron Collider near Geneva will be out of action for at least two months

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/7626944.stm

 

[KimB]

For a scientific take on the matter:
http://cosmicvariance.com/2008/09/19/lhc-first-magnet-failure/

In short, really disappointing. Looks like we probably won't have any collisions before they shut down for the winter, which means it might be as long as next spring before anything gets started.

But I suppose the Fermilab people are rather excited about this! They get some more months to discover something interesting at their own collider.

 

[Sobek]

For a scientific take on the matter:
http://cosmicvariance.com/2008/09/19/lhc-first-magnet-failure/

In short, really disappointing. Looks like we probably won't have any collisions before they shut down for the winter, which means it might be as long as next spring before anything gets started.

But I suppose the Fermilab people are rather excited about this! They get some more months to discover something interesting at their own collider.

Dagnabbit.

There's nothing more to say.

Damn dagnabbit.