PC-Engine said:
They didn't include MPEG4 and VC-9 because when they compared them to MPEG2 a year ago their quality wasn't good enough. They are giving them another chance because they have made improvements to the codecs. To be fair, the way they found out about the major improvement was because they seen it when they had to approve it for HD-DVD since most Blu-ray members are on the DVD steering comittee.
Riiiight.
It's obvious why they want the same codecs that were approved for HD-DVD. It's a safety net, just in case BRD flops, they can always make them (the BRD recorders) backwards compatible with HD-DVD with some modifications. Not only that, but the BRF don't have to design and manufacture the decoders themselves as that is already being done for HD-DVD anyway. The BRF are just leeching off of development work done for the HD-DVD spec. while at the same time selfishly supporting their own format. It's funny how the BRF tried to stifle HD-DVD progress by voting against HD-DVD's approval only to later find that new steering committee members were elected negating their silly futile tactics.
What are you talking about??? No codec was design for HD-DVD or Blu-ray specifically, MPEG4 and WMV has been around longer than Blu-ray or HD-DVD. Also it was kind of funny what the members of the steering committee tried to hold back the DVD Forum, but that does not have to do with which format is superior or has the the most steam behind it.
Mass production of HD-DVD-ROM has not started, where did you get this BS from? NOT ONE STUDIO supports HD-DVD at this time. Also from what I read, HD-DVD and blu-ray both has an initial 10% cost increase, but Blu-ray offers cheaper production once it becomes the main format.
Yes it has, not to mention cost less to manufacture than BRD. BRD takes longer to press and the yields are inferior to HD-DVD-ROM. Those are the facts.
Hmm, give me a link where HD-DVD has started to be mass produced, they just approved the specs a couple of weeks ago. It is true that HD-DVD takes 3.5 secs and Blu-ray takes about 5 seconds to press right now, but they are working on getting the time down by other processes.
Did you even read what you quoted?
Both HD-DVD and blu-ray has an initial 10% cost, but blu-ray will end up cost less than HD-DVD. So the whole cost thing you are talking about is just a fantasy of yours.
Again, at this time no one knows if any movie will ever be released on HD-DVD since no studio supports that format right now.
HD-DVD players and movies will be released next year. Why in the world would Toshiba release HD-DVD PLAYERS with nothing to play??? Again mass production of HD-DVD-ROM has already started. WB is one of the steering committee members that voted in favor of HD-DVD. Just because they haven't publicly stated their intention of releasing movies on HD-DVD doesn't mean they won't.
Again, give me a link where a single studios supports HD-DVD and where mass production of anybody from the HD-DVD camp started mass production. WB voted for AOD to become HD-DVD because AOD was the best format that was submitted the the Forum, it has nothing to do with blu-ray. WB stated that they was on the fence about what format to support, I can find the link if you want me to.
Hmm, where did you read that they have to release recorders. Even they have to release only recorders the prices could actually become cheaper since they only have to make a recording laser bringing the cost down because the sheer amount made.
How can they release BRD players if the ROM spec hasn't been approved? The sheer amount made? What sheer amount you talking about? Oh you mean the handful of $3000 SONY BRD recorders on the market right?
Of course they cannot release BD-ROM compatible player at this point of time, but I was talking about the near future.
Again did you even read what you quoted, I was talking about in a hypothetical situation where they could only make recorders. Since they was going to make only recorders they would only have one type of laser to make, bringing the cost of the laser down. But the point is that it is not the case and just something you made up to support your agrument.
Also if this was the case, HD-DVD recorders would be wayyyy more expensive than blu-ray ones. I not sure how this would be a disadvantage, but it is not the case anyway.
And why would HD-DVD recorders be wayyy more expensive than BRD ones? Why would it even be more expensive in the first place? Care to explain?
Because in the hypothetical situation that you made up from thin air, only blu-ray recorders could be made. Since only blu-ray recorders was being made the cost would come down much quicker than HD-DVD recorders that is not close to the quanity of blu-ray recorders . But again this is not the case and it is just something that you made up.
And how is this an advantage of HD-DVD? They both have the same problem.
Maybe because HD-DVD players/recorders will be able to read HD-DVD-
ROMs when they hit the market? The SONY and Panasonic BRD recorders can't read BRD-ROMs because the ROM spec hasn't been finalized, therefore they have to rely on their recording feature which DL DVD recorders can do much much cheaper.
It is true for only those 2 recorders, but not for any other once the spec gets approved. Of course DL-DVDs can record SD much cheaper, but it cannot record HDTV efficiently. About time HD-DVD recorders hit the market, the BD-ROM format will be approved and you will have players/recorders that can play back the format.
Hmm, recording will be MPEG2 for both formats simply because it takes tons of processing power to encode a HDTV singal into any codec, especially VC-9 or MPEG4 since they are compressed more.
Just because it takes more processing power doesn't mean somebody isn't already developing a single multi-format codec. You think the encoders in the PSXs are made by SONY? You think every company that currently makes a DVD recorder makes their own encoder chips? As a matter of fact you can replace an MPEG2 decoder with a hybrid VC-9/MPEG4/MPEG2 decoder with only a small increase in cost so they can even use them in regular cheap red laser DVD players. Studios have the option of using regular DVD-9 in conjunction with VC-9 or MPEG4 if they choose.
A single multi-format codec? WTF is that? They have encoders in the PSX that can encode HDTV quality MPEG2? Of course they can include the ability to DECODE lots of different codecs, but ENCODING the mpeg2 transport stream into another codec is processor intensive and since they are re-encoding MPEG2 the quality will degrade.
Is this the same reason people use CD's to record SD broadcast? When people start to want to record HD, DVDs will not be an option.
Existing DL DVD recorders can always be fitted with the newer HD-DVD codecs with only a small increase in cost.
Any hardware can be fitted the
decode MPEG-4 AVC and VC-9, it has nothing to do with HD-DVD or blu-ray. What was your point?
Again, at this time there is no Studio support for HD-DVD.
And where can a guy with a $3000 BRD recorder buy BRD movies right now?
No, but a studio has officially said it will support Blu-ray. Even though the studio is owned by Sony, it is still a studio with real movies. Sony is also finalizing a deal with MGM to buy their library.
Plus there is no evidence that HD-DVD players will be cheaper.
And there is no evidence BRD recorders are cheap either what's your point?
You was the one that said that HD-DVD will be cheaper, I never said that Blu-ray was going to cheaper. If I would have said something will be cheaper, I would have atleast some evidence of it.
You have to remember that the only big CE companies that support HD-DVD is NEC and Toshiba, while Blu-ray has 13 big CE companies.
Um..if a person can't buy a cheap BRD player to play HD movies, it doesn't really matter if 500 companies are backing it. Ultimately the consumer decides not the CE companies.
Of course if no one can buy a cheap Blu-ray player it doesn't matter, but the same applys to HD-DVD. That fact that 13 huge CE companies are backing blu-ray is reassuring that reasonably priced blu-ray players will be released. But this has nothing to do with Blu-ray and HD-DVD since it applys to both. The consumers will decided if HD movies on any format will take off, but the studios will decide which format that is.
Also the finally codecs has not been approved for the BD-ROM format. So everything you said about VC-9 and MPEG-4 can very well be applied to Blu-ray as well.
Um yeah but how can someone with a $3000 SONY BRD recorder play those encoded movies? How can someone play those movies on the Panasonic recorder coming out next month?
No they can't, but can anyone buy any HD-DVD player that can play non-existent HD-DVD movies? The fact is that players will be released that can play BD-ROM. Sony has said their next blu-ray recorder will support BD-ROM playback. The people that will be buying the pansonic and have already bought the Sony are buying them for their recording abilities only, they know very well that they will not be able to playback BD-ROM.
