Oh that explains it! Surely there’s a PC Card or anything else with HDMI2.1?It's because there's currently no device out with HDMI 2.1 that can output 4k/120. Heck are there any output devices out yet with HDMI 2.1? I haven't been keeping track anything that isn't a PC graphics card (which currently don't have HDMI 2.1).
Best 4K HDR TV's for One X, PS4 Pro [2017-2020]
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Sigfried1977
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As if 4K/60 wasn't a big enough ask for whatever the next consoles are gonna be. 4K/120 doesn't seem particularly relevant. Wondering whether that talk about 8K isn't gonna bite the hardware makers in the butt a little bit, btw. You know, like the talk about 1080p back on the PS3.
As I only bought my new TV 3 years ago, I’m pretty sure my next one will be MicroLED, which is set to become more affordable in the next few years, linky: https://www.whathifi.com/amp/news/m...-become-mainstream-as-prices-drop-says-report
Best of all worlds: brightness through the roof like LCDs, individual pixel dimming control like OLEDs, and no burn in as it’s not organic.
My ZD9 will be just fine until then.
Best of all worlds: brightness through the roof like LCDs, individual pixel dimming control like OLEDs, and no burn in as it’s not organic.
My ZD9 will be just fine until then.
Silent_Buddha
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I'm wondering what they are basing this on. AFAIK, there hasn't been a massive breakthrough in manufacturing Micro LEDs in a cost efficient method yet.
Samsung's recently announced "consumer" display is both extremely expensive and low resolution.
To achieve 1080p it requires a panel size of 73 inches and is likely to cost over 100k USD for that configuration.
To achieve 8k resolution it'll require 292 inches from what I've read, and if you have to ask how much it is, you can't afford it.
The displays are all custom made at custom sizes and resolutions.
As well, it appears that LG is still limiting their Micro LED efforts to digital signage for businesses due to its expense and complexity.
The good news is that there are more companies trying to make a breakthrough in manufacturing for Micro LED than there are trying to improve on OLED.
The technology is certainly a potentially good alternative to OLED, so it'd be nice if there was a breakthrough to make it cheaper to manufacture.
However, keep in mind that LEDs also degrade over time. The hope here is that they degrade more uniformly and more slowly than OLED.
Regards,
SB
I'm wondering what they are basing this on. AFAIK, there hasn't been a massive breakthrough in manufacturing Micro LEDs in a cost efficient method yet.
Samsung's recently announced "consumer" display is both extremely expensive and low resolution.
To achieve 1080p it requires a panel size of 73 inches and is likely to cost over 100k USD for that configuration.
To achieve 8k resolution it'll require 292 inches from what I've read, and if you have to ask how much it is, you can't afford it.
The displays are all custom made at custom sizes and resolutions.
As well, it appears that LG is still limiting their Micro LED efforts to digital signage for businesses due to its expense and complexity.
The good news is that there are more companies trying to make a breakthrough in manufacturing for Micro LED than there are trying to improve on OLED.
The technology is certainly a potentially good alternative to OLED, so it'd be nice if there was a breakthrough to make it cheaper to manufacture.
However, keep in mind that LEDs also degrade over time. The hope here is that they degrade more uniformly and more slowly than OLED.
Regards,
SB
Samsung’s 75 inch MicroLED (dubbed The Window) was readily described as a 4K set. Is that wrong?
And MicroLED is touted to have a more consistent and longer lifespan. Supposedly it is rated at a lifetime of 100k hours.
Silent_Buddha
Legend
Going from reports of Samsungs announcement that they'll begin sales of the sets to people that inquire.
https://www.theverge.com/2019/6/13/...icro-led-modular-size-292-inches-2k-73-inches
That wasn't the article that I read earlier, but it basically says the same things minus speculation on pricing. Other than just really expensive.
Just heading off, so not much time to look up the original article I read.This likely comes down to cost to manufacture. Likely trying to hit a low 6 figure price. The CES one of a kind unit was 4k at 75 inches. The units displayed for the announcement was 2k at 73 inches.
As it is, it appears that sales to the public will be by inquiry only. It may be that if someone was willing to pay significantly more, they'd be willing to make something similar to the 75" unit they used at CES.
The 100k hours is a claim that Samsung has made, but whether that will actually materialize in a sub-10k USD unit in the next 5-10 years is the big question.
Regards,
SB
https://d2ikmkyju2pasj.cloudfront.net/xstorage/1/Indoor/CSEED_Spec_Sheet_283_217_205_163.pdf
I can't be drinking the Mini LED koolaid when the actual spec sheets scream not for home use. 290 kg for 163 inches really? Typical power consumption of 2600 kW for 600 nits of brightness. At least Samsung is not lying when they say lifetime for their products are 100,000 half hours as it is general industry standard (and the notion inorganic LEDs do not suffer from burn in need to die! EL QLEDs are inorganic too and they die in 150 hours with cadmium and 75 hours without) , but I can't expect it to maintain it with 4000 cd/m2 blaring. Power consumption would be bigger limitation for a high-res high nits Mini LEDs than lifetime. And economy of scale simply do not favor micro/mini LEDs at all. $250 for a single sheet of eventual 10.5G 150 inches OLED vs $750 for a 5 inches nanosaphire? Do people also believe in 350nm clusters beating single 14nm monolithic in cost if given enough time?
So, nope~ For me, WOLED has far more of a pros then cons
Pros : Cost, size variation (from 32 inches to 150), uniformity (made of one sheet instead of multiple modules ruining greyscale), power consupmtion, weight, thinness, flexible (I can make multi monitors setup easier with curved OLED screens than Mini LEDs)
Cons : Brightness (but WOLED is rapidly catching up too), lifetime (Top Emission will make it pretty much irrelevant), color volume (Unlike RGB OLEDs, WOLEDs need color volume cut in half due to presence of White light)
I can't be drinking the Mini LED koolaid when the actual spec sheets scream not for home use. 290 kg for 163 inches really? Typical power consumption of 2600 kW for 600 nits of brightness. At least Samsung is not lying when they say lifetime for their products are 100,000 half hours as it is general industry standard (and the notion inorganic LEDs do not suffer from burn in need to die! EL QLEDs are inorganic too and they die in 150 hours with cadmium and 75 hours without) , but I can't expect it to maintain it with 4000 cd/m2 blaring. Power consumption would be bigger limitation for a high-res high nits Mini LEDs than lifetime. And economy of scale simply do not favor micro/mini LEDs at all. $250 for a single sheet of eventual 10.5G 150 inches OLED vs $750 for a 5 inches nanosaphire? Do people also believe in 350nm clusters beating single 14nm monolithic in cost if given enough time?
So, nope~ For me, WOLED has far more of a pros then cons
Pros : Cost, size variation (from 32 inches to 150), uniformity (made of one sheet instead of multiple modules ruining greyscale), power consupmtion, weight, thinness, flexible (I can make multi monitors setup easier with curved OLED screens than Mini LEDs)
Cons : Brightness (but WOLED is rapidly catching up too), lifetime (Top Emission will make it pretty much irrelevant), color volume (Unlike RGB OLEDs, WOLEDs need color volume cut in half due to presence of White light)
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Maybe DLSS like solution that provides 4K.
Other than that or some other upscaling solution, 8K is a pipe dream outside of maybe 360 titles or some some new smaller non AAA games.
But for MicroLED...Bleh! It will take years, if ever, before it gets into my price range. Im still dreaming and hoping that London Boy adopts me. LOL. Cmon LB, for the cost of a next gen console and Live/PSN u can save a frugal gamer from the US. Im pretty sure that works out to less than a dollar per day over 7 years.
Plus I’m starting to believe that Samsung is mostly motivated by a strong desire to avoid royalty fees than a desire to provide bigger and better tech. Samsung still has to shrink pixel size by a factor of four while shrinking cost. What’s stopping OLED from increasing brightness to a competitive level in that time?
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First of all, devices with HDMI 2.1 ports may not support all the formats. I think the HDMI .org allows different bandwidth ports to be in compliance or allowed to be branded as HDMI 2.1. It’s definitely that way with HDMI 2.1 cables.
Secondly, who’s going to offer HFR content? Some networks like NHK are push8ng 8k but not sure about HFR. Japan will be hosting the Olympics next year. Will they offer HFR as one of the formats?
Yeah micro LED is so far not manufacturable on a mass scale.
Samsung is supposedly running a pilot to decide if they can make QD-OLED but they keep delaying the decision. Even if they decide to proceed, it wouldn’t hit the market for 2-3 years.
They were suppose to look at running a pilot line in a new 10.5g plant but the plant has been delayed as some people in their display business have been arrested or are in some kind of legal trouble.
Samsung is supposedly running a pilot to decide if they can make QD-OLED but they keep delaying the decision. Even if they decide to proceed, it wouldn’t hit the market for 2-3 years.
They were suppose to look at running a pilot line in a new 10.5g plant but the plant has been delayed as some people in their display business have been arrested or are in some kind of legal trouble.
Not sure if I ever posted it here but I did end paying about 1k for the 65" TCl 6 series. Overall I could say I'm happy with it. And it does have a proper game mode. My biggest issue was mine featured dark corners or so called "vignetting". It seems this is common defect in TV's (although in looking at TV's on display in stores I never see it) and best advice is to ignore it. However, I'm a bit OCD and it did/does definitely bother me but overall I've learned to mostly forget about it. The thought of reboxing and mailing off for return (since I got it from online, not brick and mortar) a gigantic 65" TV over the issue was a non starter for me. That is one issue with big TV's, they get harder and harder to move or return. 65" is probably the limit forever for me.
It's funny now though all the year old TV's have come down in price. In fact I saw Costco was clearancing those amazing 2000+ nit Vizio quantum 65" recently for $700-$800! Oh well, I'm familiar with how tech works, it's the price you pay, I dont dwell on it.
It's funny now though all the year old TV's have come down in price. In fact I saw Costco was clearancing those amazing 2000+ nit Vizio quantum 65" recently for $700-$800! Oh well, I'm familiar with how tech works, it's the price you pay, I dont dwell on it.
I love my 55" TCL Series 6. I don't have the vignetting, but I have noticed the gray uniformity issue RTINGS mentioned in their review. I'm almost used to it, but I will make sure my next TV doesn't have the issue, unless of course I can't afford one in the 65"-70" class.
Tommy McClain
Silent_Buddha
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Well, that's both promising and disappointing.
And blooming from local dimming LEDs can still be noticeable. OTOH, the blacks are much better than current LCDs on the market.
I'd be very interested to see what could be done with IPS panels with this. My displays need to have wide viewing angles.
Regards,
SB
WOLED cost to produce is coming down so quickly that it'll make it very difficult for another tech to compete. The newer tech will need to have a notable visual upgrade over WOLED for early adopters to jump in. Then it'll need to have an aggressive cost reduction model.
It's a rough market out there. I saw a 77inch OLED in the UK Costco for under 3k the other day. That's a tough hill to fight on.
It's a rough market out there. I saw a 77inch OLED in the UK Costco for under 3k the other day. That's a tough hill to fight on.
Silent_Buddha
Legend
Yeah the biggest barrier to people that could afford OLED was potential burn in issues. But thus far, most people that have one have had no issues. The only people I've read that I have had significant issues with burn in have been ones that have both left CNN on almost 24/7 and turned up the brightness on their set to max or almost max brightness.
However, I still have concerns about how well it'll hold up for me after 5-10 years of use. Of course, now that I've done a personal comparison of the best available sets (according to Rtings) the picture quality and personal reports on AVS forums means it's worth the risk for me to try one this year.
When I think about getting a new TV, all I can think of now is just how bloody good the OLED sets looked. When the cheapest OLED of a given size has both better picture quality and is cheaper than the best LCDs of a given size... Yeah, it's difficult for me to justify going with an LCD panel TV, unless it was going to be used for pathologically bad use cases (tuned for high brightness showing the same thing 24/7).
It's one of those things. Now that I've seen it, I can't go back. Just like now that I'm seeing more content (games mostly) at greater than 60 Hz (most of my friends that game have 100+ Hz screens now)...60 Hz in games is starting to look bad. BFI at 60 Hz helps a bit with motion artifacts due to persistence, but that induces flickering that is very noticeable to me. Evidently I'm highly sensitive to flickering on displays.
Regards,
SB
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