Backwards compatibility on Xbox 360

[Inane_Dork]

Just as a side note on BC for the PS3. I cant find it but i listened to a podcast where they pointed out that the BC slide from the KK press conference specifically mentions that games must conform to the PS2 TRC (?). Which is to say that the games need to have been coded 'by the book' using the SDK. In the podcast they seemed to feel that some of the better games may be doing something that dont conform to the TRC in order to squeeze out more performance out of the PS2. They surmized that this would make, according to developers they spoke to, quite a few existing PS2 titles incompatible with the BC strategy on the PS3. I'll try and see if i can find the slide they were referring to but i thought that was interesting.

EDIT: Here it is:

http://www.watch.impress.co.jp/game/docs/20060315/psm09.jpg

Very interesting to see if there are in fact PS2 games that wont be BC and which games those are, they could end up being the best ones graphically.

This should not come as a surprise given that Sony can't make the PS2 fully compatible with PS2 games. It's a handy way of reserving carte blanche.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

I can understand this caveat. Same as the Amiga A1200. But from what KK said they were adding hardware support for all those devs that did 'strange things'. Could be a change of heart once they found how difficult that would be. It'll be interesting to see if BC becomes a fiasco. If they don't pull it off right (I'll accept some misses, which are inevitable) they shouldn't have bothered.

 

[drpepper]

This should not come as a surprise given that Sony can't make the PS2 fully compatible with PS2 games. It's a handy way of reserving carte blanche.

Huh? Which ps2 games are supposedly incompatible with the ps2?

 

[expletive]

This should not come as a surprise given that Sony can't make the PS2 fully compatible with PS2 games. It's a handy way of reserving carte blanche.

Yep, just thought it was worthwhile to bring it up becuase it seems some were under the impression it was 100% BC. I know i was. Also, if they were doign a 'ps2 on a chip' i get the impression this stipulation wouldnt exist...

 

[expletive]

I can understand this caveat. Same as the Amiga A1200. But from what KK said they were adding hardware support for all those devs that did 'strange things'. Could be a change of heart once they found how difficult that would be. It'll be interesting to see if BC becomes a fiasco. If they don't pull it off right (I'll accept some misses, which are inevitable) they shouldn't have bothered.

I dont expect it to be any better or worse than the 360 after reading this.

 

[Inane_Dork]

Huh? Which ps2 games are supposedly incompatible with the ps2?

The PSTwo is not compatible with a handful of games. I do not recall offhand which ones they are. I think maybe Tekken 4 is on the list.

 

[mckmas8808]

But my question is how do you quantify that? Like I said earlier, that just because there are more sales of the game does not mean it is a direct correlation to b/c, its not like the previous gen consoles, magically disappeared and all users of it bought the new console.

But how do you quantify if Sony and MS going with High Def consoles is a good thing? I mean if you look at the current numbers, neither of them should have worried about adding the extra hardware to accomodate High Def gameplay.

Point being in the end we both know that going this route is the best thing for both parties. And to answer your question I will just say look at how people are exploding at the fact of playing old NES, SNES, and N64 games on their Revolutions. Plain and simple if done right BC is only a postive.

 

[mckmas8808]

I dont expect it to be any better or worse than the 360 after reading this.

Oh trust me the BC in the PS3 will be better than the BC in the Xbox 360. It's really pretty obvious why. IP ownership of certain technologies!

 

[expletive]

And to answer your question I will just say look at how people are exploding at the fact of playing old NES, SNES, and N64 games on their Revolutions. Plain and simple if done right BC is only a postive.

Slightly different becuase Nintendo is chraging for those games right? I wonder if that will curb people's enthusiasm (pun intended larry david fans), what would you pay to play Super Mario Bros AGAIN but on the revolution?

Oh trust me the BC in the PS3 will be better than the BC in the Xbox 360. It's really pretty obvious why. IP ownership of certain technologies!

Emulation is emulation, if you dont have actual legacy hardware in the box, theres no guarentee of anything.

 

[AlNom]

what would you pay to play Super Mario Bros AGAIN but on the revolution?

$5...CDN....maximum.

 

[Qroach]

Slightly different becuase Nintendo is chraging for those games right? I wonder if that will curb people's enthusiasm (pun intended larry david fans), what would you pay to play Super Mario Bros AGAIN but on the revolution?

I wouldn't pay anything to play it again. i would possibly play if it was free. Then again i have MAME and other emulators on my PC, and a extra modded xbox just for that sort of thing.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

The PSTwo is not compatible with a handful of games. I do not recall offhand which ones they are. I think maybe Tekken 4 is on the list.

IIRC it was the Ceramic White PS2. Which perplexes everyone as it's, in theory, the same damned console with a different colour plastic!

BTW I'm buying a black PS3 to help aid BC

 

[heliosphere]

Not necessarely. The potential added costs in adding B/C could simply be offset by adding value to the console as a whole which will most likely result in higher interest and higher sales.

The cost of adding b/c might be amortized over the lifetime of the console if enough people see it as a compelling feature (one that sways their purchase decision). For the early adopters the cost will be paid upfront however.

 

[heliosphere]

Just as a side note on BC for the PS3. I cant find it but i listened to a podcast where they pointed out that the BC slide from the KK press conference specifically mentions that games must conform to the PS2 TRC (?).

Of course, games that don't comply with the TRC should never have passed certification anyway if they were doing their job properly...

 

[ShootMyMonkey]

IIRC it was the Ceramic White PS2. Which perplexes everyone as it's, in theory, the same damned console with a different colour plastic!

I thought some people were saying that the white PSTwo used an in-house IOP rather than the old one built by LSI.

 

[expletive]

Of course, games that don't comply with the TRC should never have passed certification anyway if they were doing their job properly...

"Uh yes Mr. Jaffee, we cant certify this 'God of War' game. It doesnt pass the TRC so get this garbage out of my face until it does."

 

[Titanio]

There's no such thing as 100% bc. Just as close to it as possible, which hopefully means 90%+. PS2 wasn't 100% BC with PSone.

Kutaragi warned at the Business Meeting that there was a non-negligible number of PS2 games that didn't follow the TRC - but that seemed to be the only circumstance presented under which a game would not run on PS3 or PSP's PSone emulator etc..

 

[NavNucST3]

There's no such thing as 100% bc. Just as close to it as possible, which hopefully means 90%+. PS2 wasn't 100% BC with PSone.

Kutaragi warned at the Business Meeting that there was a non-negligible number of PS2 games that didn't follow the TRC - but that seemed to be the only circumstance presented under which a game would not run on PS3 or PSP's PSone emulator etc..

Hmmm, he actually said non-negligible? I still hold that even if Katamari, God of War, AND Final Fantasy were not backwards compatible that it would have little to no effect on overall console sales, I'm still going to buy it and I have yet to play either of those and would love to play them, worst case for me, is I wait until ps2 is the price of a game, $50, and play them then.

 

[expletive]

There's no such thing as 100% bc. Just as close to it as possible, which hopefully means 90%+. PS2 wasn't 100% BC with PSone.

Kutaragi warned at the Business Meeting that there was a non-negligible number of PS2 games that didn't follow the TRC - but that seemed to be the only circumstance presented under which a game would not run on PS3 or PSP's PSone emulator etc..

But if that non-negligible number of games includes GoW, GT4, Jak, etc then that 90% number is pretty useless. Whats the point if it doesnt include the games people REALLY want to play? (Fwiw, the impression they had in the podcast was that at least 20% of the games were not TRC certified)

I guess that the my point is people shouldnt make purchase decisions now based on what they think BC will be for the PS3 or the 360 (unless all the games they wanted to be BC on the 360 already are...)

 

[Shifty Geezer]

But if that non-negligible number of games includes GoW, GT4, Jak, etc then that 90% number is pretty useless

Exactly. If the key titles don't work, and they're key because they did naughty tricks that improved them over the competitors, it'll be noticed. 10 big titles missing could cause havok with the public IMO, all grumbling over BC not being BC.